"Barbra Streisand Book Club" w. Emerald Fennell | Crooked Media
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November 15, 2023
Keep It
"Barbra Streisand Book Club" w. Emerald Fennell

In This Episode

Ira and Louis discuss Barbra Streisand’s long-awaited memoir, Grammy noms, Dua Lipa’s new single, The Iron Claw, The Holdovers, Quiz Lady, films about trivia, and the Bezos Vogue photo shoot. Emerald Fennell joins to discuss Saltburn, her creative process, and more.

TRANSCRIPT

[AD]

 

Ira Madison III And we’re back with an all new. Keep It. Live from the Bon Soir. I’m  Ira Madison, the third.

 

Louis Virtel I’ll be singing Who’s afraid of the big Bad wolf in seven octaves. I’m Louis Virtel.

 

Ira Madison III Later this episode, we are going to get into Barbra Streisand’s long past memoir, Like This Bitch Has Ruined My Week.

 

Louis Virtel No kidding. And also, I’m listening to it on audiobook insistently. And I don’t do the 1.5 X speed. I listen to it to hear it at Barbra’s normal speaking voice.

 

Ira Madison III You had to.

 

Louis Virtel It’s like I’ve moved into a monastery and she’s the main monk. Like my entire life is about Barbra Streisand. Right now. I am only 10 hours in of 48 hours. Honestly, it’s so delightful. I don’t want it to end and I don’t want it to go any faster so we can talk about how that is exciting, as she always is.

 

Ira Madison III But of course, there’s been some other new cultural developments this week. First of all, the queen of pop is back. I’m kidding. But Dua LIPA did release a new song.

 

Louis Virtel She is a pop musician who was a woman. Certainly can agree there.

 

Ira Madison III She enters the studio.

 

Louis Virtel Yes, right. She is a recording artist. Yes.

 

Ira Madison III It’s on her LinkedIn. Right.

 

Louis Virtel Find her on SoundCloud. Yeah.

 

Ira Madison III Do you like it?

 

Louis Virtel I kind of feel the same way about the song that I Do Dance the Night, which was at first it felt like just a run of the mill Dua LIPA song, you know, like the arithmetic mean of what she gives us, but at the same time, Dance the Night sort of gained something on me. Now when I listen to it, I’m a little bit more into it and I feel like Houdini, which is her new song. And also I just love name dropping celebrities from the early 20th century period. So, you know, I’m like, all right, I’m in on this, you know, weird Hungarian man who put themselves in milk jugs and then almost die. We love that. I would say it’s a B-minus song, a good playlist starter when you’re watching YouTube with the girls before you go out.

 

Ira Madison III Well, speaking of Dance the Night, I sang that at karaoke on Friday unexpectedly. Oh, to tease more to namedrop, our guest this week is Emerald Fennell, and I was at this Saltburn dinner on Friday and seated next to her. She’s our guest this week as well. So we talk a bit about last Friday. We talk about the movie with her this week, but because of the movie, there’s a scene where there’s a karaoke scene in it.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, right.

 

Ira Madison III And I guess I want it signed up for Dance the Night and then decided they didn’t want to do it. So the person running the karaoke is just standing there, confused, terrified, holding the mic. And I was like, Well, I’m a fag and I know this song.

 

Louis Virtel Right.

 

Ira Madison III So I took it.

 

Louis Virtel In a movie, this would be the part where you become a giant pop star. Like unexpectedly, you have to sing this.

 

Ira Madison III There’s close ups of everyone watching how good I am.

 

Louis Virtel Yes, right. Agast, exchanging glances. Yeah.

 

Ira Madison III And then I was like, you know what? Kind of a good karaoke song.

 

Louis Virtel Interesting. Well, it’s not terribly difficult to sing.

 

Ira Madison III Right. It’s a song that I feel like grew on me ,too. It is, I would say, a lot like Houdini in that we thought they were going to be departures from the future nostalgia era. I feel like there’s been a lot of conversation about how this is going to be a new era, etc..

 

Louis Virtel Right.

 

Ira Madison III They sort of sound like future nostalgia, like thick songs that got cut from the album. To be honest.

 

Louis Virtel Yes, that’s exactly what it sounds like. Exactly.

 

Ira Madison III But Dance the Night is Mark Ronson, and there are bits where you can sense the Mark Ronson ness. I think like the opening of the song Dance the Night is very Mark Ronson, you know? But then it just sort of becomes a regular Dua song. And I would say the same for Houdini, which is produced by Kevin Parker from Tame Impala, My father and Danny Hurrell, my other father, he’s in PC Music, which is the group that you know, includes Trixie, Acts Caroline Polo Track included Sophie, and, you know, that sort of hyper pop genre, which I adore. And I was excited to hear that mix with Kevin Parker’s sort of psychedelic rock guitar mushroom vibe music. And you get it at the end a bit, but there’s not enough. It doesn’t feel psychedelic enough.

 

Louis Virtel Well, it also doesn’t really feel like a complete song to me. It feels like there’s a verse missing or something. In talking about Houdini.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah.

 

Louis Virtel Also, I’m sorry, I thought of the meanest joke, and I’m just going to have to say it. When you said Charlie XCX and Caroline Polytech, I was thinking, Oh, the Who-Tang Clan? Anyway, moving on. They’re nice people. They make good music. I don’t know what. It doesn’t need to be sad. I’m sorry. When you write for Late Night, half of your job is writing puns. And I’m sorry, but your brain goes there. Moving on.

 

Ira Madison III So nasty, so rude. But it does sound a bit unfinished. There’s an interesting part in the beginning of the song where she says, like, go very softly and then the music. Arts, which makes me think that the preceding song on the album may sort of bleed into it.

 

Louis Virtel A little Confessions on a dance floor.

 

Ira Madison III Yes, right. You know, but I mean, would that this song were as massive as hung up.

 

Louis Virtel Right, right, right.

 

Ira Madison III That was a departure. That was an era that was giving disco. I was like, if we’re going to get funk and psychedelic on this album, then like, this should have been some Jefferson Airplane shit.

 

Louis Virtel Also, I would say I’m surprised this is the lead single.

 

Ira Madison III Mm hmm.

 

Louis Virtel Like, it just feels like a third or fourth single. And by the way, in listening to the song on YouTube over the weekend before going out, do you know what song I was reacquainted with? That just came up out of nowhere. Future Nostalgia, which was so good, and I feel like people thought it was like the worst song on the album or something. To me, that had a point of view. And it also sounds a little bit like on that song, pop Music by, you know, everybody talking about pop music, that song. And I love the reference of that. I love like the sassiness of it.

 

Ira Madison III I like that song.

 

Louis Virtel So I hope she finds a little bit more sass to put into the music. And by the way, her outfit in the video simply baffling, simply baffling. What is this like, net? It’s black netting over like a bodice over, like something nude tucked into athletic pants. It’s actually something I would expect choice of on to wear. Not her.

 

Ira Madison III I think all the gays at Basement are wearing that every weekend. So maybe that survived. Yeah. Brave girl.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah. Did you see her on this red carpet where she is just wearing a red sweatshirt and jeans and she looks like she’s, like, in the Baby-sitters Club. Yeah. It’s so weird.

 

Ira Madison III That will literally be the fashion in three years, though.

 

Louis Virtel I know, Which is fine. I remember shopping at H&M and just wanting an oversize sweatshirt and moving right along.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. Also, we are approaching your favorite season, which is award season, and I feel like we’re both starting to see the films.

 

Louis Virtel Yes.

 

Ira Madison III We’re starting to go to the screenings.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah.

 

Ira Madison III I saw The Iron Claw last night, which was very sad, but it wasn’t slit your wrist sad.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, interesting.

 

Ira Madison III I’ve been sadder in the theater before, You know, maybe just because you know where the story is going.

 

Louis Virtel Well, by the way, not everybody knows that story. It’s a very, very dour story of this wrestling family.

 

Ira Madison III Oh, that’s fair.

 

Louis Virtel And many of them meet grisly ends. But Zac Efron stars in it, and I don’t remember the last true Zac Efron Prestige project once upon a time. Tried a couple of times. Are movies like that, Me and Orson Welles? I don’t think 17 again counts as prestige, you know? I mean, just like, it’s like a new lane for him, and it already feels like he’s doing the Mickey Rourke and the Wrestler thing. Yeah, we’re. We’re getting acquainted with the dark reality of being Zac Efron, and I believe that exists.

 

Ira Madison III Well, no one saw it, but he did star as Ted Bundy.

 

Louis Virtel Right. Yeah.

 

Ira Madison III And extremely wicked. Shockingly evil and vile. I did not watch it.

 

Louis Virtel Too bad there are 50,000 Ted Bundy projects, so it’s like Spiderman at this point. We have like 35 Ted Bundy’s.

 

Ira Madison III And I only want to see Al Bundy products.

 

Louis Virtel Precisely. Yeah. Katy Segall come back.

 

Ira Madison III Where’s Peggy?

 

Louis Virtel Yeah.

 

Ira Madison III I’ve been a huge fan of Zac Efron, obviously, since High School Musical. We’re both millennials of the same age, so I think we kind of grew up with him and it’s nice to see him in a role like this. I thought it was great. I thought that Harris Dickinson is great, and I think that Jeremy Allen White is very good in it. It’s a really good cast. It’s sort of Virgin suicides. ESQ It’s very sad movie. Four Sad Boys.

 

Louis Virtel Okay. Okay. Well, Harris Dickinson in particular, I think, specializes in that. If you ever saw the movie Beach Rats, there’s just a melancholic languor about being, you know, a closeted dude on the shores.

 

Ira Madison III Awful movie. I don’t like it.

 

Louis Virtel I disagree. I think it’s good. I think it’s good. It’s just it’s it’s more like evocative and moody than it is like a dynamic movie.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, the vibes are off for me, but I much prefer him in Triangle of Sadness.

 

Louis Virtel He was great in that, and yet it wasn’t really a showcase role for him either. But also that movie Zigs, when you think it’s going to zag and then it spirals. So it’s not really about any one character.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, I mean, I feel like Ruben ÖSTLUND films are sort of like that, though. They’re very long and everyone who’s in the first 40 minutes of the film, the movie is not actually about them.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, right, right, right. Even at the beginning of that movie is great. The middle section of that movie is the real good part. The Dali DeLeone scene. I don’t really care about the last hour that much, which is, I think, not the popular opinion.

 

Ira Madison III It’s not.

 

Louis Virtel Speaking of Katey Segal, I’m a rebel anyway.

 

Ira Madison III But the movie is very vibes. It’s also great if you’re a wrestling fan and if you’re a wrestling fan who loves the camp and vintage era of wrestling, too. So it sort of has this sad, very emotional film, but it also is, you know, tethered to the camp of wrestling in the eighties. And so that is very fun to watch. And I think that the wrestling scenes are especially amazing.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, that’s interesting.

 

Ira Madison III I think that Sean Durkin, who did Martha marcy May Marlene.

 

Louis Virtel Love that movie.

 

Ira Madison III He’s really good at the wrestling scene. There’s a lot of really good angles. There’s a lot of really good shots. I think it’s it’s very dynamic in that respect as well.

 

Louis Virtel This gets me excited for the inevitable American Gladiators movie, which we had the two docs this year. I’m telling you, when that comes out, Oscars will be one. I’m telling you, whoever gets to play Gemini, that’s going to be the role.

 

Ira Madison III Two things I will say about the film, though, is the obviously, it’s about the Von Erich family, which is a wrestling family that was believed to be coerced because most of the brothers died. Zac Efron plays the only surviving brother who’s currently still alive but has three kids and 16 grandkids, and they all live on a ranch together. Oh, wow. It’s sort of like a happy ending to the tragedy that befell his family in the eighties and nineties, But they cut out a brother from the film.

 

Louis Virtel That’s so weird because it feels like the movie is on this planet to, like, convey reality. Be like, here’s everything that happened to this.

 

Ira Madison III Right.

 

Louis Virtel You know, allegedly cursed clan. And the curse continues now their brothers being deleted.

 

Ira Madison III Three of the brothers died by suicide and one of the brothers is completely erased from the movie, allegedly for time constraints. But, wow, very wild to do this film.

 

Louis Virtel Call up the guy who played Chuck Cunningham on Happy Days, let’s get some commiseration, got Judi Winslow on the dial.

 

Ira Madison III That’s one of the source spots about the movie, but it didn’t affect me while watching it. But when I read about the family, their history and more, after watching it, I was like, What the fuck?

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, Weird, weird, weird. Well, I just saw The Holdovers with Paul Giamatti, which is the new Alexander Payne movie. I think my favorite thing about the movie is it takes place in like a boarding school campus and not much in the way of a soundscape other than some church music that takes place around Christmas. And I’m obsessed with movies that take place around Christmas that aren’t about Christmas, they’re about the days before and afterwards. I talk all the time about the movie Metropolitan from the early nineties, which is about these fancy sort of pretentious kids and their early twenties hanging around the holidays and the debutante balls and the after parties they attend and it’s just a chill hang out movie. This isn’t quite a chill hang out movie, but you get that kind of holiday vibe that isn’t schmaltzy. Divine Joy Randolph is in it. She’s really good. She’s actually the frontrunner for the Oscar right now, and I feel like she could have played this partner Sleep. I don’t know that I see an Oscar for her.

 

Ira Madison III While Kathy Bates just won a supporting Oscar for a sleepwalking role.

 

Louis Virtel Nominated. Yes.

 

Ira Madison III I’m sorry. She didn’t win for that role, did she?

 

Louis Virtel She was nominated for a Richard Jewell movie that I guess we just won’t watch again. And then she beat J.Lo, who is, you know, such a dynamic supporting force and hustlers.

 

Ira Madison III Mm hmm. Yeah. Who won that year?

 

Louis Virtel Laura Dern in marriage story, which I think is a great performance. It’s actually controversial among my friends.

 

Ira Madison III I like that performance. I think it’s controversial because people were really rooting for J.Lo.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, right, Right. Also this week, I’m going to be seeing The Color Purple, which there’s no word about that movie yet other than people think Taraji Henson might have it in the bag, which would be interesting because, as you know, in the eighties, Margaret Avery, who played that role, lost to Anjelica Huston and of course, Oprah Winfrey also lost to Anjelica Houston. But for that to be a player in the supporting categories again, really gets the vintage Oscars both in me excited and actually Anjelica should present the Oscar.

 

Ira Madison III Taunting me Taunted Black woman at the Oscars. What are you Neil Patrick Harris?

 

Louis Virtel Here comes 3 hours of magic before we get to the first category.

 

Ira Madison III Octavia Spencer Like let me out of here.

 

Louis Virtel Right. Getting an Oscar earned her a spot in his bet. Yeah.

 

Ira Madison III I would love Taraji to be a frontrunner in this film, because I would love to watch the taste of that Benjamin Button out of my mouth.

 

Louis Virtel Right. That role is so like a conventional Oscars role, and she is cooler than that. So I would like to see her nominated for this. But anyway, lots of prestige stuff Coming up, What is happening in this episode?

 

Ira Madison III Well, as I already said, we are going to talk about Barbra’s memoir. Yes. And also the Grammy nominations are out.

 

Louis Virtel All 7500 categories. I can’t wait to comb through them one by one.

 

Ira Madison III Yes.

 

Louis Virtel Best Tejano slash Hawaiian slash Goth album or whatever is on the docket.

 

Ira Madison III And our guest this week is Emerald Fennell. We’re going to talk to her about Saltburn.

 

Louis Virtel And a little bit of promising young woman in there. Yeah.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. And what goes on in her crazy, crazy mind. We do not get to her love of Vanderpump Rules, which we did talk about Friday evening.

 

Louis Virtel Oh. Well, that’s a conversation between you, you two, and God, not Louis, but.

 

Ira Madison III Louis is going to be.

 

Louis Virtel All right.

 

Ira Madison III Get that shit out of here.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, No.

 

Speaker 2 All right. We will be right back with more Keep It.

 

<AD>

 

Ira Madison III Keep It’s awards season coverage starts now.

 

Louis Virtel Wahu.

 

Ira Madison III With this year’s Grammy nominations, there are some obvious picks, some surprises, and some nominees who are so excited they had to bother everybody on a flight. Did you see that?

 

Louis Virtel Who are you talking about?

 

Ira Madison III Gospel singer Bobby Storm.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, yes. She refused to stop singing. I saw it.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. She discovered she was up for two Grammys. Which shout out to her. Yeah, that’s a great accomplishment. But then she started singing on her flight. And you see the video of flight attendant. It goes at to talk to her. And she’s like, everyone’s enjoying it. And he says, Well, I’m not enjoying it.

 

Louis Virtel Also, I refuse to stop singing, sounds like the name of a gospel album. I’m sorry, it’s fitting.

 

Ira Madison III Listen, I’m happy for her. But then she started to say that God wanted her to sing for the people on the flight. And I’m sorry she was on Delta. I am not sitting on a Delta flight meeting to listen to your caterwauling. Okay.

 

Louis Virtel No, no, no.

 

Ira Madison III I don’t need the praise and the worship when I am on a flight. I’ve already gone through TSA, which means I’ve been through hell.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, right. Also, Delta has that movie selection, so I’m already deep into things I’ve avoided in the theater, like me and Earl and the Dying Girl or whatever I’m watching on the screen. I don’t have to listen to that.

 

Ira Madison III I remember Kanye at this once before, too. And I think that one of my pet peeves is people singing like that in a public confined space that you cannot escape.

 

Louis Virtel I don’t know if you know this about a plane. You can’t leave. You have to be on the plane. So that needs to be explained to somebody who is taking up all of the space when singing.

 

Ira Madison III Right. It’s like, did you see that video of Swifties heading to the Eras tour earlier this year? And I guess the plane was delayed and they started singing Taylor songs and I was like, Where’s my gun?

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, give me the parachute. Here comes some D.B. Cooper shit. I’m getting off.

 

Ira Madison III But back to the Grammys, which are usually racist. But this year they ate that one little thing. Big Sister has the majority of the nominations this year with nine for her album S.O.S..

 

Louis Virtel Wow. That is a lot.

 

Ira Madison III Which is not my favorite. It’s a little disjointed. Yeah. It’s not Control. Control was an amazing album. I still listen to that right front to back S.O.S.. I skip around quite a bit. I will say that I’ve discovered that a lot of Ivy League white gay men in New York City use the album S.O.S. as their sex playlist. Don’t ask me how I know.

 

Louis Virtel Just straight through top to bottom. You need to vary the playlist. Yes, We’re some deep crunch house. You know what I mean?

 

Ira Madison III No, it’s just like they just put it on there. They just put on S.O.S. and let it play. I’ve been told this by multiple people.

 

Louis Virtel Victoria Monet has the second most nominations this year. And I have to say.

 

Ira Madison III My queen.

 

Louis Virtel If, I may, Mama, one record of the year. I don’t think that’s going to happen because I feel like that’s usually a populous type of vote. Yeah, that would be pretty fucking rad for the category because a lot of people well, actually, Flowers by Miley Cyrus would also be a good call. And the reason I say that is not just because it’s a giant hit. Miley Cyrus has never won a Grammy before and in fact has been nominated for basically only two Grammys. And one of them is Album of the Year for Montero because she’s a featured artist on that album. But Lil Nas X, so it’s like she is completely underrepresented at the Grammys and her music has gotten better and better over the years. So I enjoyed Bangerz.

 

Ira Madison III Well, I would say everything from the Hannah Montana era is better than endless summer vacation, but your mileage may vary on that one.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, I like a couple of songs on Endless Summer Vacation. Yeah, it’s a well-produced album and she sounds great. It’s just the songs don’t really stick with me.

 

Ira Madison III The limo’s not out front. Okay.

 

Louis Virtel Right, there it is. My best friend Leslie says, Eh. Yeah.

 

Ira Madison III I would also be incredibly excited for Victoria Monet winning for On My Momma, which is maybe my favorite song of the year. And also the album is just it’s so good and she’s such a great live performer and she’s just such seems like a very sweet person. I mean, she’s worked for years as a songwriter and now she’s having this huge glow up moment and she’s the second most nominated black woman after SZA, I would say second most nominated person. But Phoebe Bridgers is also tied with her for seven nominations. But it’s a really great story for Victoria Monet because if you recall, she did not perform at the VMAs this year and she posted that MTV told her team that it just was too early in her story for her to perform at the VMA is this year in the main ceremony or even in the pre ceremony, which is fucking ridiculous.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, that is shocking.

 

Ira Madison III When you consider the people who performed at that fucking show. And so for that to happen to her earlier this year and then to get seven fucking Grammy nominations, it’s like MTV sounds like they are once again behind the curve.

 

Louis Virtel Also, the other nominees for record of the year, we have Jon Batiste, We have Billie Eilish. We have Olivia Rodrigo.

 

Ira Madison III Him again.

 

Louis Virtel Taylor Swift. I would say all of these people have produced better music before and have been rewarded Grammys for it. I’m surprised, like Billie Eilish, What Was I Made For? It seems like the frontrunner to win the Oscar again, which would be her second Oscar in the best original song category. Not saying it’s bad. Not saying I don’t enjoy its place in the Barbie movie, which I famously disliked. I would have put it in my favorite, like 15 Billie Eilish songs, honestly.

 

Ira Madison III Named 14 others.

 

Louis Virtel Watch me. Let me pull it off.

 

Ira Madison III I honestly wouldn’t either. You know, it’s not even in my favorite songs on the Barbie soundtrack,.

 

Louis Virtel Right. Which is a very dynamic soundtrack and all over the place. And, you know, I was wondering, by the way, did I bring this up Before Hands by Kylie Minogue, which has a weird Barbie name drop in the middle of it. Do you think she was going for the Barbie soundtrack and then didn’t get on?

 

Ira Madison III I think whoever wrote that song was going for the Barbie soundtrack. Kylie walked into the studio and they handed it to her.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, right, right, right.

 

Ira Madison III I do not believe that Kylie was involved in any heavy songwriting or production on this album in particular. It feels very. I got a Vegas show to do. Yeah, it feels very. Pussycat Dolls hearing the album for the first time. Do you get what I’m saying? Yeah.

 

Louis Virtel She said that she wrote the song Tension. She tells stories about writing that in the studio, so maybe not the entire thing, but I do see what you mean. Speaking of her, by the way, she’s nominated for dance recording. And while the fagot showed up for this category because it is her verses Troye Sivan, who we used to have on this planet, but he was actually blown to smithereens by Azealia Banks last week. And now we don’t have her. I don’t know if you heard this.

 

Ira Madison III Oh, of course I did.

 

Louis Virtel No, no, I know you did. I’m talking to the people at home. Azealia Banks just I mean, as is her way rudely dismissed him after he said that he loves her song 212. And then she posted something saying we’re past two, one, two, and then called him like a pedophile baiting fagot or something.

 

Ira Madison III I will say this is established beef.

 

Louis Virtel Right.

 

Ira Madison III Because on watch what happens live, I believe in 2018 or something, he said in response to an Andy question that he liked Azealia Banks. But because she’s controversial, he never wants to publicly say he likes Azealia Banks.

 

Louis Virtel Hmm.

 

Ira Madison III So I guess she was snapping back at that because she remembers a beef look.

 

Louis Virtel Okay. But at the same time, I mean, nobody’s going to remember a beef like her. I have to say he should have known. But secondly, again, you know, my theory that a witch placed a curse on Azealia Banks where every time she is hilarious, she then has to say the worst shit you’ve ever heard. So just know that this is all part of the Rumplestiltskin like life she lives.

 

Ira Madison III She did also say this week that she loves Chris Brown’s music, which I unfortunately agree with, even if I don’t like him. And that’s all we will say about that.

 

Louis Virtel There’s plenty of people in this category. I don’t think that’s an astounding thing to declare. Okay. What else is interesting here? I’m looking at Album of the year, which again, Lana Del Rey was nominated for, and also her song A and W has a nomination. Can I say something about this woman? She definitely as I’ve said before, I praise her for sticking to her guns and be like, This is my whole thing. I do. Woman In a gossamer nightgown in an attic, moaning out a window. Okay, That’s my whole fucking thing. The lyrics to me are always a little funny on accident. Like, she’s always, like, ironically, pairing spooky vocals with. Here I am saying the word fucked or bad words in general, and there’s meant to be some irony in between there and maybe a couple of times there were, but it’s listening to it again. It’s just I don’t know. It just feels repetitive to me.

 

Ira Madison III I don’t know. I think her entire genre Is the Todd Haynes film Safe.

 

Louis Virtel Right? No woman getting more pale away from the sun, lost in cyclical thoughts, etc..

 

Ira Madison III And the girls are gagging.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah. Right.

 

Ira Madison III By the way, another iconic Azealia Banks beef.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, of course. Yes. Well, also, Lana will get into it with you. You know what I mean? She’s reusable.

 

Ira Madison III Lana Del Rey. Of course I will say that, Lana. I’d rather you keep saying, Lana.

 

Louis Virtel Both are acceptable. She made the name up. Yeah. Her name’s like Courtney Johnson.

 

Ira Madison III She did eat that one response to Azalea where she said, you know, the ATI pull up. But if I were you, I would at. Which almost but didn’t completely make up for that very weird Instagram post she had where she names just black women in the industry. Plus Ariana Grande Day. Back when Ariana Grande it was black and not Korean. Ward said that they’re allowed to be sexy in their videos, but she has a stripper pole in her video and she’s slut shaming. And it was like, Girl, what?

 

Louis Virtel Lots going on in that post. Best New Artist. First of all, I was made aware of this person Jelly Roll last week. Do you know who this is?

 

Ira Madison III I think I can get that at the bodega.

 

Louis Virtel You can. You can. He is also a extremely popular country artist who just did a bit with us on Kimmel and is like a winning personality and stuff. Just all of a sudden he blew up. So I feel like it’s between him and I know Victoria Monet is going to win, right? You can’t get that many nominations and a bunch of categories where it seems like she’s not going to win and then not get Best New Artist because all these other people aren’t nearly as represented in the nominations. She’s up against Ice Bass and Fred again. Gracie Abrams. Gracie Abrams. That’s the daughter of J.J. Abrams, am I right?

 

Ira Madison III Yes.

 

Louis Virtel Right. And in keeping with their father, she will have lost this category.

 

Ira Madison III Yes. That’s Jay-Z’s daughter. She was just seen stepping out in New York City with Taylor Swift last night. They went to the box of all places, which is only lol because she was in Argentina truly the night before. So she hopped on her oxygen guzzling jets and flew from Argentina to New York City just to go to the box.

 

Louis Virtel Grim. Grim. You don’t have to do that. Also though. So that was like minutes after she jumped into the arms of Travis Kelsey in Argentina.

 

Ira Madison III I’m gagging for that.

 

Louis Virtel Since they have this like wild romancing the Stone like relationship or they’re all over that, like the Western hemisphere.

 

Ira Madison III I’ve gagging. Okay, Let her be Joan Wilder. Okay.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah. If this relationship gets people to see Romancing the Stone, it was all worth it.

 

Ira Madison III Wait, so I am looking up Jelly Roll.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah.

 

Ira Madison III You told me the same Bubba Sparks?

 

Louis Virtel You would think it was him. I do have to say the stance is the same.

 

Ira Madison III He left Collie Park, got a bunch of tattoos, and now he’s crooning.

 

Louis Virtel Right? Right, right.

 

Ira Madison III Instead of rappin.

 

Louis Virtel Booty, booty, booty, country rock and everywhere. Yes.

 

Ira Madison III But speaking of people switching up their flows, this could be in my Keep It segment, but I have a feeling the album will probably be good. So I don’t want to prematurely be rude. But Andre 3000 dropping his first album in over a decade on Friday. And it’s no rapping and it’s him playing the flute. Excuse me. He announced it this morning.

 

Louis Virtel Jethro Tull What a Jethro Tull.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. There is no rapping. It is him playing the flute and it comes out Friday, but he has for years been studying it like he’s a trained flutist now, so little should be said.

 

Louis Virtel He certainly had to be doing something. Now if Lauryn Hill came back, it’s like, Look, I play the bassoon now. I’d be like, okay, well, you were doing something that’s exciting.

 

Ira Madison III This television writer, Kirk Moore, said that when Andre 3000 was shooting season two of American Crime that he used to he told them that he used to secretly go to the orchestra in Dallas and play with a live audience. And he loved it because no one knew who he was.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, that’s cool. I mean, when you’re a musician, I assume you just want to perform in certain ways and not want to play all your old stuff again and again. So I’m surprised I don’t hear more tales of things like that.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, so I’m interested in it. But getting back to these nominations, I feel like they are. They’re fine. I’m excited for SZA. I’m very excited for Victoria Monet, The Record of the Year, Album of the Year sound fine, but I just also sort of feel like, I don’t know, Jon Batiste or Taylor Swift are going to win, and so do I really care.

 

Louis Virtel We need new, interesting artists. It just feels like a continuation of nominations that happened three, five and seven years ago. You know, it’s a little depressing to see the same names represented. By the way, she does not mean for albums of the year. I know.

 

Ira Madison III No.

 

Louis Virtel I’m going to be actually killed on air one time for talking about this woman. But I’m sorry, but.

 

Ira Madison III Not for this album, right? Because I feel like, first of all, Midnights feels like a footnote this year anyway, considering that she’s released 1700 Taylor’s versions right after it, you know, like, who’s even thinking about Midnight’s?

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, it’s just like a soft all right ish album. But of course, she is a sensation and like, she’ll always I’m on her side that like, she sells literally like McDonald’s every day. So you can hardly argue with numbers when like, nobody is buying music. So it’s like she’s always her own category of eligibility.

 

Ira Madison III That’s fair. And shout out to Janelle Monae for being nominated. The album’s not really for me.

 

Louis Virtel It’s more I like the other one better. The one with Django Jane on it. Yeah.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. I really like her funky Prince era. This is really more Easter Sunday brunch. But the people who vibe with that, you know, champagne and grooves, right? They love it.

 

Louis Virtel Enjoy the hollandaise sauce. I’m not really into seafood.

 

Ira Madison III I will say lastly, I was excited that the Arctic Monkeys were nominated for some stuff because, you know, I love them and it’d be nice that they showed up to the Grammys and performed.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, of course, Boygenius is nominated in that category too. After every article on Earth told me to listen to that album I did. It was fine.

 

Ira Madison III It’s a supergroup I cannot get behind. I love all of them individually, to varying degrees, but I really just cannot get into Boygenius. I’m either not lesbian enough or melancholy enough, and maybe I just don’t like wearing ties with t shirts and I don’t know.

 

Louis Virtel Or hot overalls the way lesbians can now. I feel like every lesbian is like slicked back hair and hot overalls and address.

 

Ira Madison III You know, Lemony Snicket’s. They’re always writing the Lemony Snicket.

 

Louis Virtel That’s right. That’s right. Well, but we really did nominate Ballad of a Homeschooled Girl, which is an Olivia Rodrigo song and best rock song. I think that’s maybe correct. I don’t want to categorically eliminate her because she’s a pop artist. You know, like we put pop artists in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. What does rock mean anymore? It’s a good question. Does it just mean men with, like, facial hair and then it’s loud? Who knows?

 

Ira Madison III Well, I mean, didn’t Donna Summer when a couple of her Grammys from being in the rock category? I feel like sometimes you have to slip out of your regular category to get something.

 

Louis Virtel No. Right. Amy Mann’s only Grammy is in Folk, which is like almost true, but not really.

 

Ira Madison III I mean, if you told me she lived in the woods, I believe.

 

Louis Virtel She lives in a magical forest called Los Feliz. It’s not really like that, but. Okay.

 

Ira Madison III All right. When we’re back, I’m joined by my new bestie, Emerald Fennell.

 

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Ira Madison III Our guest today is a legitimate quintuple threat. Actor, writer, director, producer, fucking Oscar winner. So we only have time for icons here, as you know. And today is no different. You know, as the writer, a director of Promising Young Woman. And the new mind bending thriller, Saltburn.  Not to mention, a fun cameo as Midge, the Forbidden Barbie, in Barbie. So please welcome to Keep It a whirlwind of talent. Emerald Fennell.

 

Emerald Fennell Thank you.

 

Ira Madison III Hi.

 

Emerald Fennell Hi. I do feel like a whirlwind, but that’s who I kind of feel like. Like a sort of, like, tepid breeze.

 

Ira Madison III You’ve done so much, and it’s. It’s interesting even to remind myself that you were in Barbie, because, of course, that happened during the SAG strike. So it was it’s been very fun to see everything post that. I think when I saw you Friday, it was truly like the day after everyone was immediately back to work. People were on set. Yeah, you what you said what you texted Barry and  was like.

 

Emerald Fennell Starstruck going, boys.

 

Ira Madison III Let’s get to this screening of Saltburn immediately. Red carpet. Let’s hit it.

 

Emerald Fennell I know. It’s just. Oh, honestly, Because also what he said, I mean, quite classic. After promising women came out and it was all it was just so unexpected. I think the response to that, it was so wonderful, but also kind of like, you know, a bit of a rollercoaster. And so for this one, I was like, you know, what I’m really excited about is just like taking a step back and not doing really any publicity at all and just like letting the actors speak. And then it happened and and so but look, it also meant that SAG just did like the most incredible job and the fact that they just nailed it so profoundly made it all worth it because it’s so amazing the deal that they got. But I am also terribly, terribly relieved that people can finally be looking at the people they want to look at who are like gorgeous, gorgeous people from the film.

 

Louis Virtel Okay. There are two things about Saltburn that I love in particular. One, it’s a throwback to movies like Rebecca or I saw. You mentioned this British movie that never comes up any more, the Go-between, this Julie Christie movie where people are on a rambling estate and things begin to crumble for them within the house. And then secondly, it is also a 2000s period piece, which we don’t have as a society yet. And I was wondering what went into making this movie, a 2000 film? Like how many discussions did you have about getting I don’t know, whatever von Dutch cap you wanted to get on the air.

 

Emerald Fennell I mean, it was all just for my my hopeful von Dutch sponsorship pretty well because of the. Yeah, because of the movies that you describe. Basically, I was sort of I was sort of looking at that genre that I love so much, which is that Yeah, British Gothic, Country house sort of story. And so those stories always have a framing narrative. They always start with that kind of first person narrator telling you about time where their life sort of was frozen, that they could kind of never get over. So. So I always knew that because of the structure, it would need to be period piece up to a point. And then it’s actually set in the most part of summer 2007, which was exactly 15 years before when we filmed it and 15 years before anything, any time is terrible. So wherever you are in time, 15 years ago was just unbelievably lame, you know, because the wardrobe still kind of is still kind of in our closet. We still own stuff, but we kind of hate it. Nothing’s come back. It’s not retro, it’s not cool, it’s not ironic. It’s just like we all just look like ourselves. And so it had this incredibly, like, humanizing effect on this very inhuman world, I guess, and, you know, just knocks the edges off some of that, some of that glamor. And but the conversations honestly about like the Livestrong bracelets. Yes. This sort of if we’re going to have accessories, it will need to be a headband, head scarf, a long hair of dangly dangly earrings, ten necklaces, one skinny scarf, bra showing. It’s like how many things can you have on your head without, like physically falling over. The bad fake tans, stuff like that. You know, nothing says that you are a beautiful, rich girl in 2007, like also having terrible extensions and a terrible time because everyone did so I mean, just that the kind of research was so amazing, you know, it was so much fun, like making that world real.

 

Ira Madison III One of the. Interesting things that you’ve mentioned about writing this and I guess sort of your writing process in general is that you take a long time to write something in your head first. So what is the process like when you conceive an idea, one like Saltburn and then you are, I don’t know, I guess, going throughout your day, your life, thinking about it constantly. And then when do you know it’s time to actually sit down and start writing something?

 

Emerald Fennell Yeah, I mean, I think it’s a bit like what I was talking about the other day with someone a bit like, you know, people have crushes and the crush is generally not just a person, it’s the circumstances. So you may have a crush on a person, but also it’s like, Oh, but if we were together, we might go to this restaurant and I would wear this outfit and then this moment might happen, and then we would end up in bed and it would be like this. And, you know, lots of people have that kind of daydream all the time before they go to sleep is that, you know, going about their everyday life. For me, it’s like that’s the writing. It’s kind of the crushes the world. And it can start in all manner of ways. It can start with a scene or a character. This movie started with Oliver with a moment of like, you know, the first thing was Oliver, a young man sort of saying, kind of insisting I wasn’t in love with him, and then doing something that really undermined that statement, which I sort of probably can’t be specific about because spoilers. But then it’s the things and the people that kind of catch your interest in that stay. So Saltburn just turned into one of those places that I went to a lot and then it started, you know, all the characters come in and people come and go and then, you know, you live in the house and bit by bit it becomes more real, more textured, more specific. It’s when the conversation stopped changing. It’s when you’ve been into every room a thousand times and everything’s kind of staying as it was then. I think then I’m ready to write it. I kind of know because I’m like, okay, I’ve done every version I’ve been in, You know? If it was immersive theater, the most embarrassed I ever as a human person is, is any immersive theater production aspect. But as a British person, I am completely mortified. But but for me, it’s kind of like that. It’s like if you’ve done it and you’ve literary seen every version of it at that play, then it’s ready to go. So that’s yeah, So it’s like a purging. It’ll come out like a purge.

 

Louis Virtel So we should say this is a movie about a guy at like a boarding school who get, who becomes sort of infatuated with this debonair, bratty classmate and then eventually gets to stay with him for the summer and his gorgeous estate, which is called Saltburn. And we study their relationship. And I think a movie that comes up a lot when people bring up this movie is The Talented Mr. Ripley. And I feel like the reason is we are fascinated by impostors and people who use kind of cleverness and guile to sort of like ingratiate themselves with people who are unsuspecting. And I was wondering, like, did that movie play into your writing of this? And just are you fascinated in general with impostor types?

 

Emerald Fennell I think well, it’s really funny that that comes up so much because they’re not very similar in in a funny way. I mean, I’m so for me, obviously, I I’m obsessed. I loved the Bengali film, of course, and I’m obsessed with Patricia Highsmith. But actually it’s to me, I was kind of looking so much more closely at that kind of like British tradition of of kind of very specific, like class sex power story. I think the thing that I’m interested in is, I suppose the fact that we’re all impostors, that we’re all liars, that we’re all looking for people to think we’re interesting and sexy and clever, and how we go about doing that, and especially at a point in our lives, you know, like at college or, you know, when we get our first job, whatever, those kind of like moments are where you can remake yourself. And that’s absolutely where Oliver is here. I’m just so interested in like, yeah, and how we show people who we are, how we make them like us, how we make them fall in love with us. It was similar, you know, the kind of identity shift was similar in promising a woman to, I think, you know, what can we do? What can I do? What can Cassie or Oliver do to make people think, make assumptions, even even if they’re not true?

 

Louis Virtel I guess the one thing I will say that is I think similar is the charm of Jude Law and The Talented Mr. Ripley is comparable to what Jacob Elordi does here. I’ll be honest. Like, I wasn’t like a regular Euphoria viewer. I’m like a little late to him. I just watched him. Priscilla recently. This person is not normal. He is like very extremely watchable and extremely in control. And I believed every note of what he does here. What was it like directing his performance specifically? Because he has to be both charming and a little like a he’s like a dupe and also rich and also human. There’s a lot going on with this character.

 

Emerald Fennell Oh, my God. Totally. I mean, Jacob is just he’s just amazing. And it’s a really, really difficult part in many ways. That character is the is the most complicated because he has to be both a kind of burst of sunshine, charisma that is irresistible, but also a disappointing human. He looks like a god and he’s got to play it like a mortal. And that is what Jacob just did so beautifully. And also it’s just such a kind of like brilliant bit of, like observational comedy. That’s why Jacob was so fantastic, because when he came in, the temptation, I think for a lot of people came in and they did beautiful performances, but they were too self-aware. You know, they played it like Sebastian Flight. They played it like they were kind of arch. They were they knew the story they were in. And what Jacob did was which was what I was looking for, was just some bloke. Who happened to be the most beautiful person on the planet and some bloke who’s actually does something kind of, you know. In the writing, I made sure that Felix does something shitty or capricious or spoiled or misogynistic or cruel in every single scene. And the trick is that we don’t care. And, you know, this movie is all about what we forgive for beauty and for kind of and for, you know, charisma. And so the fact that the audience always comes out being like, he’s such a nice guy, you’re like, Is he? I mean, and then directing heaven because with him, I was like, I was always like, Oh, no, your bad kisser. Felix has to be bad kisser. He has to get in bed. He’s never needed to learn how to kiss. I want to see you go. Or like the way he reads Harry Potter, because obviously it was. It’s the summer of 27. So when that last Harry Potter came out, everyone had their own copy, and they were and I was like we said, we’d said like, obviously Felix would be reading Harry Potter as though it’s The Iliad.

 

Ira Madison III Yes.

 

Emerald Fennell And reading it, he’s like his mind is below, like what is so brilliant And just those little things are so wonderful. And when someone like Jacob, who is so funny and so clever, you know, again, he’s a deceptive person because of his gorgeousness and his height, you think you know. You underestimate just how talented and funny and great he is. Hmm. Yeah.

 

Ira Madison III I mean, speaking of being deceptive, I mean, you are such a funny and, you know, charming person to be around, but you’re also a very sick woman. You know, I was sitting in this film mouth agape for so many moments that I can’t even bring up, because to even spoil or even just one of them would be horrible. But even to mention them, you’d be like, What are you talking about? You just have to sit there and watch these moments in the theater. And there are moments where people at the screening that I was in, you know, people were are gasping at certain points. They were afraid to laugh. At a certain point. There’s a scene in the cemetery at the end where I was just cackling like I couldn’t let it in anymore.

 

Emerald Fennell Aha.

 

Speaker 2 And where do these twisted things come from in your mind? It reminds you of like it didn’t fit at all for speaking of euphoria, for, like, Sam Levinson’s, the idol, what it was like from the sick, twisted mind of Sam Levinson. But I feel like all your movies now need to say from the sick and twisted mind.

 

Emerald Fennell Well, this is where I’m like a really facetious press, and I don’t think it’s that sick. I think what is sick is all kind of very like sort of facile relationship with sex and this huge disconnect in what we think about really, and how we feel not just in ourselves, but in like the way it’s presented, Right? Like because I grew up with women’s bodies being, like, completely treated like with casual disdain, used to, like, make movies a bit more palatable, expected to be undressed for no reason, you know, like sex scenes that are kind of this like two beautiful people, hairless people, like, rubbing against each other with sort of zero joy or kind of passion. And I suppose the thing is, is that like, I feel very much like, you know, this is a movie that the movies that I want to make are a little bit like fairytale and expressionistic, and they’re not 100% real. Like, I’m never going to be able to make something that sort of like cinema verite to us. But what I do want is the feeling of what being in the grip of that almost unbelievable kind of nightmarish desire is that feeling of like somebody has like, reached all the way down your throat, you know, that just kind of can’t function, are going to go crazy feeling. And I think to have that, it needs to be a little transgressive. It needs to be tied up. There needs to be an element of sort of revulsion and embarrassment, shame. I don’t know what I don’t know what it is exactly. But like, I think that I think that in this movie, all of the stuff that is all the stuff that is that I think, you know, that is sexy, for example, you’re seeing and you’re seeing someone’s face in closeup. You know, you’re seeing two people kiss and the nudity is not sexual. It’s I mean, it isn’t. It isn’t. You know, it’s sort of about grief and sort of despair and like futility and kind of and it’s all sort of and it’s and it’s funny and it’s embarrassing and it’s gross that it’s kind of hot and difficult and and yeah, just I don’t know, I feel like there’s nothing in this film that. Shouldn’t be relatable, even if it’s not something you would necessarily specifically do. You know, I think that I totally relate to the feeling of wanting to lick someone’s bathwater.

 

Ira Madison III Of course, I mean, the No Doubt song.

 

Louis Virtel I was going to bring it up, I’m sure that’s what it’s about.

 

Emerald Fennell Exactly. When Gwen did it, ti was fine. But I think it’s just like I want to. And also you want to talk about it, right? Like I want to talk about stuff. Same procedure, woman. I just. I don’t know about anything, really. But I want to talk about it. I want to think about it. I want. I want to think about why we all have these feelings and why we, you know, can’t quite get to the bottom of them. And that’s why it’s so fun making films.

 

Ira Madison III You know.

 

Louis Virtel I do have questions about other things concerning you that are not Solomon related, but I thought it was so interesting when I heard you say that you specifically wanted to write a movie that was male centric, like the stuff you done previously about women. And I was wondering what things about, I guess, male desire were you interested in conveying in this movie, and would this movie be different if it were about women?

 

Emerald Fennell I think so. I mean, honestly, it just to be honest, it wasn’t a conscious thing in that Oliver presented himself to me as Oliver. And I think, again, the genre, even if it’s like Gatsby, it tends to have this sort of two men and a sort of friendship and in inverted commas, friendship at the center of it. And so so I think partly it was just, just sort of it was just maybe that’s where it was coming from, I think. I think certainly, of course, I thought about if it was to women. I think the thing that for me didn’t work quite so well for me was that certain the female friendships that I’ve had are tactile. They tend to be, you know, especially at that age, they tended to be a little bit more, you know, the things that there were fewer barriers to a kind of physical relationship. I think it was kind of more natural, more natural to take the girls, the female friendships that I knew that you would always be sort of entwined with each other physically to some degree. And I think because this movie is about not really being able to touch the person you want to touch or not in the way that you want to touch them, perhaps that barrier that like certainly at the time felt like it existed. There was a kind of physical threshold that maybe wasn’t crossed in the same way with with boys of that era as it was for girls. I think. I think partially it was it was that. But I mean, the honest answer is this is I don’t really know. It just it just was and it felt like that’s how it presented itself. The story to me.

 

Ira Madison III I mean, anyone who’s gotten to I think I told you that all boys school like myself, like being a gay man in an all boys school in that era, too, you know, there’s very much something about you’re attracted to people, but you can’t physically express it. And even a moment of, you know, like in the film or in real life of someone touching your shoulder or, you know, like grabbing your hand, at a certain point it feels so charged. And that is in this film, so much. So congratulations on just getting that feel. And I think Barry is a perfect person to present that. It’s been so interesting seeing his evolution as an actor as well, because I think from, you know, killing of a sacred Deer and to Banshees, you know, he’s always played sort of the all kilter, kooky person. And I’ve always been like, now this man is completely gorgeous. And when you watch Salzburg, you see that he’s still you know, he’s there’s the part where he’s, you know, sort of like walking where that he’s sort of like he’s lesser than Jacob Elordi. But there is a scene in the film where they’re walking in a field and he’s just sort of like has to take his shirt off. And you see this bear just basking in the sun and you’re like, Oh, no, this is a God, too. He’s not Apollo like Jacob Elordi, but you know, he is.

 

Louis Virtel He’s circling a bit.

 

Ira Madison III Hermes or something. Yeah, You know.

 

Emerald Fennell No. Absolutely. I think the thing is about Barry is his charisma is like out of control. And his charisma is kind of Robert Mitchum. You know, it’s the Cape Fear. De Niro. It’s Oh, no, I know this is bad. I know he shouldn’t be in that playhouse, you know? I mean, he shouldn’t be in that playhouse with that little girl.

 

Ira Madison III But yeah.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, God.

 

Emerald Fennell Oh, you know.

 

Ira Madison III I just rewatched that.

 

Louis Virtel Likewise. Oh, God, Kate. Sarah makes me feel so unsafe even saying the words Cape Fear De Niro.

 

Emerald Fennell In such a fun way. Right? But sometimes you want to feel unsafe. And I think you know that that was always the thing about Oliver, about casting of Oliver, is that Oliver is not necessarily particularly at the beginning, the person that you necessarily do you think is going to leave the theater not being able to. Stop thinking about. And that is that’s part of how that’s part of how it works, right, is that you don’t see him coming and that what he does, what all of a skill is. There are these people who are amazing. And when you meet them, you’re like, fuck. They kind of see immediately. They can see, right? And they know they and they can see something that you can’t even see about yourself. And I think that’s the thing about Oliver is that he is kind of enigmatic to the end. He can give other people what they want, most of them, but he doesn’t ever get what he wants. You know, he’s this kind of he’s this bottomless pit of kind of desire. And and so so in casting him, it needed to be somebody who the closer you got. You know, physically with the camera, the less you knew that there was this, there was a constant feeling of just thinking you could grasp him and not quite fingers, never quite getting any purchase. And that’s what that is what he does so beautifully. That’s what Barry does, is you can never be sure. You can never be sure. You look at those eyes and he could kill you. Or he could fuck you. Or he could destroy your life. Or he could just offer you a cup of tea. That’s the thing about Barry Barry’s face as an actor is it is so. It’s like a it’s like you can read anything into everything he does. And so. And it needed to be that way for Oliver, because, you know, having an unreliable first person narrator in a visual medium is very complicated. So you need somebody enigmatic because otherwise it sort of doesn’t work.

 

Louis Virtel Final question. I think I first became interested just you as a person, and how casually funny you are watching the run up to your Oscar win for promising young woman and seeing you just like on a red carpet, just being just very wisecracking, very funny. But of course, that movie, while it has comic elements, is so bleak and has such grotesque elements, has is tragic in many obvious ways. But was there a particular joy in promoting that movie? Like, I don’t know. Like. Like, was there a catharsis in writing it that then talking about the movie, like, I don’t know, it made it more fun because every time I watched an interview with you, you were so I don’t know. I don’t know how else to put it funny. You know.

 

Emerald Fennell I think it’s a it’s self-preservation because it was grueling, actually. Yeah, really grueling. And it was and it was very personal. And I think that’s the thing. Know, partly the reason why I didn’t want to center myself so much during this publicity, she says on a podcast. Because because of the actors strike I kind of necessarily was is there is something about I think, you know, not just being a filmmaker, but I think also maybe peculiar to being a female filmmakers that people want you to be a memoirist. I think they want to know to what degree it’s true, whatever that means. And it means that for promising women. Me and Carey also asked most outrageous amount of personal kind of questions that were kind of now I find staggering now, and also that you have that sort of sinister thing that the film is all about, which is you have to smile and nod while a man you’ve never met before asks if you’ve been sexually assaulted, at least for him. And that was daily, constantly. And I think that humor was the only way of getting out of that alive without wanting to fucking murder people. And also, it means I can keep some distance. I think everything is quite funny. I think everything is funny, really. It’s all you know. I mean, I will laugh at a funeral. I laugh harder the more I loved someone because I don’t know how else to process things. And I find this, you know, it is it’s it’s an incredibly expose. It’s already exposing making a film, especially a film about sex or about, you know, about what promising a woman was about, which was obviously very personal. And then you find yourself in a sort of strange world where you also ask to not only justify your work, but kind of yourself. And so the best way of dealing with that, I think, is just to kind of laugh it off and then you don’t have to yeah, you don’t have to sort of serve yourself up in a platter in quite the same way.

 

Louis Virtel Hmm.

 

Ira Madison III Well, lighthearted. And I mean, can you give me one word? We did get to talk about it big. Yeah, you do. We talked about it a bit before at dinner, but will you give me one word to describe Andrew Lloyd Webber?

 

Emerald Fennell Genius.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah.

 

Emerald Fennell I wrote the book for Cinderella in the UK, and.

 

Ira Madison III Then they had to call it Bad Cinderella here because they had to let the audiences. Now that this is your mother’s Cinderella.

 

Emerald Fennell The thing is, The thing is, is that Andrew Lloyd Webber has a orchestra in his head, a literal orchestra in his head, and he can remember every piece of music he’s ever thought of ever occurred to him. Hmm. And it is. You know, the thing is, it’s just is my life. I want to work with people who are unique and and that is a unique. He is it is an extraordinary thing to watch him conceive of music. I’m not you know, I don’t know that there’s anyone quite like that. And so, you know, in everything that I do, I want to be like, yeah, I want to be kind of watching people who have something that I couldn’t possibly have myself work. It’s, you know, it’s thrilling. And everyone who worked with that was so amazing and the cost of that was so incredible. So yeah.

 

Ira Madison III Great. Thank you so much for being here.

 

Louis Virtel You’re welcome. Please come back every time you write anything, a Post-it note, whatever, Just come on back.

 

Emerald Fennell Hopefully next time you will have a sexy actor instead of your phone. Like, I don’t know. Jeff Bezos is yacht something just with a harem. Thank you, guys.

 

Louis Virtel Thank you. Emerald is such a pleasure. Such a pleasure.

 

Ira Madison III Thank you.

 

<AD>.

 

Ira Madison III Barbra Streisand finally released her Bible.

 

Louis Virtel It’s about as long.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. Her thousand page memoir, My Name Is Barbra is out. And we’ve been reading or rather listening, because the only way to consume a diva’s memoir is by listening to her voice. As we learned with Mariah Carey’s memoir.

 

Louis Virtel Certainly.

 

Ira Madison III You’re really just sort of missing something if you aren’t listening to them read their own memoir. And then you also get the fun sort of ad libs. And, of course, this includes music and clips. And so I think that there’s there’s really only one definitive way to take in this memoir.

 

Louis Virtel Totally. Well, also, in general, the way it’s written, it’s not like it’s prose really, you know, it’s really straightforward.

 

Ira Madison III She’s just chatting.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And also, she’s chatting about a lot of like I mean, it gets it’s very biographical. But my favorite thing that she keeps returning to is her color preferences. She cannot help herself bring up. She’s a burgundy, a color. I’ve always loved lavender, which I’ve always loved greens, which I don’t like. And just she’s so esthetically driven. She’s so obsessive about visual details that something you discover in this memoir that like when she has a vision for something, it is it is like she already sees it, like the thing happens before her and she is basically not willing to compromise about her vision because it’s so strong in her mind, she can’t avoid it. I don’t know. It’s something I would compare to like OCD or something. There’s there’s there’s something really driven about a complete in her mind all the time. She’s never unsure. But I, I was saying at the beginning of this podcast, listen to her voice one She has such a lovely speaking voice, so it’s great to listen to the memoir, period. But also I’m just so obsessed with the period in an artist’s life, particularly when they become explosively popular, when you’re getting to know the forces that are conspiring to make them happen. We talked about with the Mariah memoir, how when she’s being a backup singer for people like Brenda Starr, when Tommy Mottola first gets the tape, the things that are coming together to make them way bigger than the average emerging artist, that’s just always so interesting to me. And there’s something in particular about Barbra Streisand that’s fascinating, because in the sixties, although she started on Broadway in the very early sixties, and you hear about that in this musical, I Can Get It for You wholesale, where she met her first husband, Elliott Gould. And there’s a legendary fight with the director about how to stage her main scene, which is just.

 

Ira Madison III Arthur Laurents.

 

Louis Virtel Yes. Who, by the way, what a career has written. Yeah. Wrote everything from West Side Story to the movie Rope to the way we were. Lots going on with him that eventually he sends her a letter about her first album when it comes out and is such a fucking dick about it, you would not. It’s like, what? It’s like he’s mad that she’s emerging. I don’t know. Anyway, back to my point. Barbra Streisand emerged when things like Beatlemania were happening, so she felt very traditional in a way, while also being extremely new because she has that kind of daffy, rambunctious quality when she sings that is both really, really funny and really relatable. But at the same time she’s singing all these really old songs. So this the fact that she exploded at that moment when things are starting to become radical in popular culture remains really interesting.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, I mean, there is the Bon Soir where she had, you know, her first sort of.

 

Louis Virtel Nightclub act.

 

Ira Madison III Nightclub act. And it was it was on Eighth Street. And that is where you mentioned that she was sort of doing Broadway songs and doing this old stuff. And, you know, it wasn’t very doo wop or jazzy or like what was really happening at the time, you know, like it was the sixties, right? And it’s so interesting hearing her talk about that and how she’s sort of really finding her esthetic. I mean, it’s you brought up Lana Del Rey before not to say that, you know, it’s Lana Del Rey, but Lana Del Rey, I feel like sort of borrows a bit from that. Right. She came out in a modern era and was sort of like, I’m a throwback. I enjoyed this kind of singing, this kind of vibe. And it’s very interesting to listen to Barbara’s memoir and hear her describe her roots and how her career began and to realize that she was even doing a bit of a throwback. She wasn’t singing songs that were particularly current when she was doing her nightclub act. And so that would have been something different than what you would be getting if you were just going to see anybody else singing and performing in New York City at that time.

 

Louis Virtel Right, right, right. And she often, like, combed like unpopular older musicals for songs to, like, kind of put her stamp on. I think one thing that’s really interesting about this book and I just want to say, please just pick up this book. I literally just want to live in it. I’m so thrilled to be listening to it. And I’m, of course, not even close to done, but I love her kind of relationship with her own talent because she. Is sure of it, but never like that’s not what she’s most obsessive about in a way. Like her singing abilities. She kind of thinks they’re like this throwaway thing that she can do. She’s sort of obsessed with being an actress first and then singing. Is she what she says she pays the bills with, but like, she treats her singing talent like, Oh, I just had this old thing in the closet. Oh, this old velvet thing. Isn’t it nice? I got a cheap at a thrift shop. It’s $10. And then she, like, puts it on and people love it and think it’s fabulous. But it’s it’s so interesting listening to her. Just be sure of herself and establish things like creative control at a time when there is like no precedent for a female artist getting that kind of wherewithal. Really. You know, she and her longtime manager, Marty Ehrlichman, they established early on that she would get a huge amount of creative control in whatever she did. And that came in real handy when it came to picking album covers that only she liked or making choices for her variety special that only she wanted to do. And because she got to make those choices, she has this completely unique path. Like she doesn’t sound like anybody else. You know, if she had let A&R people choose, make these choices for her, I’m sure there’d be a lot more obvious parallels between her and other artists. The only one I can really think of is Carol BURNETT, in that there’s a combination of goofy with extreme dignity. You know, it is never out of control. You just like you really believe in the the integrity of this artist, even as they’re giving you something very gonzo. I think they she comes up in the book a couple of times.

 

Ira Madison III It’s interesting that you bring up the cover art because one of my favorite eras within the book is when she gets into the late seventies and the eighties, because I think that’s my favorite Barbara era anyway, music wise. And when she describes the creation of the Wet album cover, basically as she says, she’s. In the studio space. And She likes how the couch looks and she likes how like the slick blackness of the setting and she realizes how good she would look sort of in that setting. And then she would look really good with her hair wet. And then she’s like, Well, let’s call the album wet, and then also make every song on the album reference Water, which is such a risky way to come up with an album. And that’s of course, if we get Enough is Enough. Her song Wet Donna Summer, which fucking massive disco song, and she talks about how the song first came to her and she didn’t really like it, but she was convinced. And then she got Donna on it. But it still wasn’t really working until to make it fit with the album. They add in that beginning where she’s like, It’s raining, it’s pouring. And I’m like, Girl.

 

Louis Virtel Keeping it literal as possible.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, So literally, literally literal. There’s a funny, funny segment where she talks about recording that album with Donna and they’re in the studio and they’re just powerfully like singing at each other. And Donna literally falls off her stool in the studio because they’re just like singing at each other. And that is so just amazing to hear. And when you talk about her being. Very sure of herself, but also sort of insecure and just sort of it’s really sort of about wanting to be. A student and sort of take in everything that she can. I think that’s why she clashed with Arthur already so early on, because she was she wanted to learn from these great directors and people on Broadway. And I think that what really sort of helped her as an actress was she was she really describes how she hated even her acting class that she took because once she learned what blocking is like, you have to do it the same every night. She didn’t want to do that anymore. She’s like, If I’m going to perform, it needs to be free. I need to be able to do whatever I want and change it. And that’s what she clashed with Arthur about. But when she talks about making that album with Donna, she says, Donna, well, how would you sing this part? And Donna Summer’s like, You’re Barbra Streisand. Why are you asking me how to sing, you know, this song? And then that goes into her very next album, which is my favorite fucking Barbra album.

 

Louis Virtel Guilty.

 

Ira Madison III I’ve said this before the show, Guilty and just talks about how. Her manager mentioned that Barry Gibb had like so many songs in the top 20 at that time. Which is very funny because then she discusses how she never paid attention to the charts. And if you asked and if you asked her like what her highest charting songs was, you have to ask her manager because she was She really only thinks about the songs in terms of whether she liked them. And when Barry comes to her, she describes just sort of like how it was one of the first times where he had written all the songs in L.A. before flying to record with her. So she said it was one of her best recording experiences ever because she just got to go in and sing and didn’t really have to do anything else.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, right. Just could be free to experiment and do what she does. But that also dovetails with another thing I find so fascinating about this. You basically just touched on it where not only was she resistant to blocking, she hated when she was in a show that the directors would say things like, okay, lock that choice in or freeze that. Where she’d like, if she did something off the cuff, they would then want her to Keep It and do it for every single performance. And she was like, first first of all, she didn’t want to do that. But secondly, she was so she’s so unashamed of asking why in any given situation. And that is what separates her from, I think, most other people, especially emerging artists. She was not afraid to be like, why is it always like that? Why do I have to do that? And it’s not like she was asking it to demand attention or to like, put down what they said. She just didn’t get it and she wasn’t afraid to say, I don’t get this. I have my own instincts. And it’s that weird, just solid sense of driven ness about what she can provide, even if somebody else is insistent about their vision that makes her just one of the definitive artists. And in fact, she’s probably the definitive entertainer of the last half of the 20th century for that reason.

 

Ira Madison III Right. And she talks about taking things too literally. Yes, too. Because my other favorite stage in the chapter on Guilty is the lyrics that Barry wrote, particularly for Woman in Love. It’s it’s she says it’s about this woman. And she says, I’d do anything to get this man. And she she goes on this like whole of she goes on this whole aside about how I wouldn’t even know how to manipulate a man, you know, like, I don’t relate to this at all. And that she realized that she was taking the words too literally and thinking about trying to think of herself as this vamp. And she was like, once I think of them metaphorically, then I can relate to the song better. And I love how she does this whole aside about that, and she ends it with Fuck it, forget the words, just do it. And hearing her say, Fuck it, forget the words, just do it. It’s it’s worth it to get all the way there in the book and just hear her talking about creating that album, which I believe she shot that cover with Mario Caselli, who is the photographer who did her Playboy cover, too?

 

Louis Virtel Mm hmm. Yeah, They’re just unbelievable amounts of pleasures in this movie. Also, it’s like she talks about how she both liked awards. Like she can’t remember certain Grammy nights. She can’t remember like she remembers when she tied Katharine Hepburn for best actress or whatever. But it’s actually something I love about this album is hearing she she recounts a lot of what critics have said about her and like, just like, nice compliments she’s gotten over the years and she can’t help when it’s like a long compliment from a critic, after which she’ll always say, Oh, isn’t that beautifully written or something like that. It’s like, Well, yes, you’re being hot.

 

Ira Madison III Or when they were describing her in Funny Girl, the review said that she was, uh, cameo faced.

 

Louis Virtel Yes, confusing.

 

Ira Madison III That’s just like, well, I guess that’s I guess that’s a compliment. I don’t know.

 

Louis Virtel She says that routinely. She is called interesting and she makes the pretty awesome observation. Interesting is what you say when you don’t know what to say. And it’s like, right. There’s something dubious about that, too. I mean, she kind of skates around how harrowing it is to be, quote unquote, called unconventionally attractive all the time. Like she actually kind of get into it and or like if it’s unbelievably painful for her, she sort of she doesn’t really go into how painful it is. But it is it it must have been so daunting for her. Like it’s like almost every critic and they were mostly male critics at the time had to say something about the way she looks in a way that was shady. They had to say that every time.

 

Ira Madison III Which of course makes perfect sense, because even leading up to what, a few years ago, you read any magazine profile? Of a woman, and there’s always a description of how they look and always a description of whether or not they’re sexy, whether or not they’re unattractive. It’s always from the perspective of how the writer feels and whether or not they’re attracted to her.

 

Louis Virtel Right now, it’s like establishing a sense of power on behalf of the writer. You know what I mean? Like, here’s the star. But let me tell you what the star doesn’t know about how they look, you know?

 

Ira Madison III Mm hmm. What’s also interesting about the book, and I feel like the main thrust of it is I’m going to bring up an actress from Girls, Jemima Kerr. I don’t know if you’re obsessed with her Instagram, but whatever she does, Q&A is they are off the wall and hilarious. But she recently answered the question, How much denial is healthy with There’s facts and there’s truth, reality and perspective. Stick with the facts. Acknowledge the reality. Then you can play around with perspective until you find the truth that makes you happiest. And this book, this memoir truly opens up with Barbara talking about how she didn’t want to write this book she’s been asked to for years. But there’s so many stories out there about her that aren’t true that she has to make the definitive truth available and be known because there’s nothing stronger than the power of the written word. She recounts how, you know, she was with Jim Brolin at the grocery store. Right. I love her. Describe how we’re just driving. We were driving back and I wanted some ice cream, so we just walk into the grocery store and imagine just Barbara walking to the fucking grocery store. That would be some ice cream.

 

Louis Virtel I would be smithereens Virtel, if I saw that.

 

Ira Madison III That’s like those random photos that I feel like came out this year or last year of Rihanna strolling a grocery store for something or Beyonce just popping in to Target to get something like when you’re a star that huge, there has to be something thrilling almost about just going into a grocery store again and picking up something yourself. But someone saw them and said, Oh, it’s so good to see you two back together. And she’s like, Back together. When were we ever apart? And she talks about another story about how a friend was talking to someone else, and they said, Well, Barbara’s a bitch. I’ve read it. And her friend said, Barbara’s not a bitch. She’s one of the most loveliest people I’ve ever worked with. Well, now I read it, so I think she’s a bitch. And then Barbara recounts, because that person had read something about me, they believed it more than my own friend who told them what I was actually like in person. That’s the power of the written word. And so she’s really.

 

Louis Virtel Like Oprah vibes, generally speaking in this book. Yes.

 

Ira Madison III It’s very much I am going to give you the truth. I like facts.

 

Louis Virtel She, yes.

 

Ira Madison III It’s funny that the facts, though, are sometimes subjective as well, because you mentioned like she can’t remember certain Grammy performances and she also says that she doesn’t remember, you know, which songs are number one or certain things in her career. But she always seems to remember things that have been said about her critically, or compliments her, or.

 

Louis Virtel Things she disagrees with.

 

Ira Madison III Things she disagrees with, and then things she does agree with that a friend has told her, and I feel like her reality is obviously true to her, but it’s obviously a very interestingly constructed reality.

 

Louis Virtel Correct. Yes, it’s satisfying to her. You can hear that she’s satisfied with what she thinks of it. And it’s sort you sort of wonder how reliable the narration can be from time to time. But honestly, it’s a pleasure to listen to.

 

Ira Madison III So what are the biggest ones about her reality? Right? Is she talks a bit about how she almost shoplifted as a kid.

 

Louis Virtel Yes.

 

Ira Madison III And she’s in the store and she was being followed and she threw the bag down and left and never shoplifted again because the embarrassment would be worse than it’s like she didn’t have a problem with initially doing it because she wanted to be bad. She was rebelling. But the embarrassment of being caught by the police or handcuffed or anything is what would do her in. And she then goes on to say, Even when I’m in a hotel and there’s something that I want, I always ask, well, can I buy this? And then they’re usually like, well, you can just have it. And that’s her response to why she doesn’t shoplift anymore. You should just be truthful and ask for things. And I laughed so hard about that. Because I’m like, What the fuck are you going to say to Barbra Streisand? Be like, Oh, I love this trinket in your hotel. Can I buy it?

 

Louis Virtel Right. That’s like 599 medicine that we have left out for, like the guests of the hotel. Yes, you can have that.

 

Ira Madison III Barbara, can you imagine you telling your manager? I charged Barbara $10.99. Meanwhile, she can buy anything.

 

Louis Virtel Yes, right. She’s the world’s richest person.

 

Ira Madison III Never forget that this is. Yeah, one of the very Oprah in that regard. Right? Right. An insanely rich woman who can get anything at her beck and call. So it’s it’s interesting.

 

Louis Virtel She has a compound in Malibu. Picture building on a beach. That makes it’s crazy. Yeah.

 

Ira Madison III But she’s still tied to her upbringing. Yeah. And so. So. So some part of her doesn’t feel like she is the most wealthy person in the world. You know, she still talks about how her. One of her favorite meals is a Swanson TV dinner where fried chicken and mashed potatoes and a Sara Lee chocolate cake.

 

Louis Virtel Also speaking of this, she has a pretty acute memory for a lot of stuff in her childhood, too. I always say, like, I feel like someone like Barbra Streisand is a little obsessed with bringing up her childhood because it makes them seem relatable the way like Jennifer Lopez is always like, I’m from the Bronx, like, I’m like you. I’m from somewhere. As opposed to being a gigantic, you know, star of who lives a lavish life. It’s like, you know what? Once upon a time I didn’t. But at the same time, I think it is impressive how long it’s like you’re in her childhood for like, a number of chapters before you even begin to get into the entertainment portion of her career. So anyway, get into the book. That’s all I have to say about that. It’s so fabulous.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. I mean, J.Lo is a perfect comparison, right? I mean, there’s this there’s just something so fascinating about this book. I love J-Lo’s memoirs. At some point in our future, when she’s ready to really dive into it and describe things, because there’s really just something in this book, in Mariah’s book, in Britney’s book to to a lesser degree, there’s really just something about the most famous people in the world. Like stars that you’re obsessed with. And you consume their art, their music. You consume images of them and stories of them and the myths of them and just seeing how they have come to where they are. And like you said in the beginning of this, like just the random choices, the people that they meet, the places that they go that somehow lead to them becoming the most famous person in the world the way that someone else didn’t.

 

Louis Virtel Right. Right. Yeah. And you keep thinking like this sounds like any other artistic mind, but something about this completely worked and, you know, transcended and now is legendary.

 

Ira Madison III Anyway. Fantastic, fantastic memoir. It is long, but it’s absolutely fucking worth it. And we will be back with our favorite segment of the episode. Keep It. And we are back with our favorite segment of the episode. It is Keep It. Let me tell you what I’m going to say sayonara to this week. I’m gonna go first.

 

Louis Virtel Mm hmm.

 

Ira Madison III Ms.. Bezos.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, no.

 

Ira Madison III In Vogue. Lauren Sanchez herself. Lauren Sanchez. Bezos. First of all, have you seen these photos? Because they look crazy.

 

Louis Virtel It has that gloss on it, which immediately told me. Here comes Annie Leibovitz with her one track. And lo and behold, it was her.

 

Ira Madison III It’s the most unflattering photo you’ve ever seen of them cramped up next to one another in a pickup truck. It’s it’s almost like a parody of the bounty video. Yes. Kim Kardashian and Kanye West End, because it’s just so ridiculous. And then the other photos of her are so unglamorous. And here’s the thing. There are a lot of complaints from people that say we should not be propping up billionaires and rewarding them with covers like this. I mean, it’s Vogue. I don’t really give a fuck about that. I just read Vogue for the Glamor. Okay. And they’re the most unglamorous photos. Lauren Sanchez has no glamor to be had. Jeff Bezos is not a hot man.

 

Louis Virtel Nor like a photographable man. Yes, like, there’s like, there’s no.

 

Ira Madison III Why am I looking at this?

 

Louis Virtel There’s no sex appeal between them. I also think, like, the look on her face, it always feels like they caught her between expressions, Like it’s not what she meant to look like in the picture.

 

Ira Madison III Right. It’s Annie Leibovitz on autopilot for one. And it’s just not glam. There’s a famine of beauty in this photo shoot, quote Andre Leon Talley.

 

Louis Virtel Yes, right.

 

Ira Madison III You think he would have let this happen?

 

Louis Virtel The gloss on the picture is, like, very ersatz. Very. It’s just it’s a it’s a gross feel. There’s no sensuality in these pictures at all.

 

Ira Madison III I will say that she gagged Vanity Fair a bit. Anna Wintour did, because, you know, vanity, that’s that’s something that I would have expected in Vanity Fair.

 

Louis Virtel Wow. Take that.

 

Ira Madison III Maybe not under erotica, though, right?

 

Louis Virtel Precisely.

 

Ira Madison III Under the penguin. Graydon Carter. When he gets to run it, maybe. Maybe we would have seen them in it.

 

Louis Virtel Definitely. With Annie Leibovitz, his 90th Disney Princess Photoshoot of the year or whatever.

 

Ira Madison III Aren’t we? Are we done with her?

 

Louis Virtel I am just. There’s nothing left to say. I just don’t want to see it anymore. I she she had a couple of good. I love that. Bruce Springsteen in the trench coat. I love that picture of O.J. leaving the courtroom, which, by the way, she staged. That was not an authentic moment captured on film. But other than that, that’s the end of that. I know you’re disappointed that O.J. didn’t give you. It’s a genuine artistic moment, but also.

 

Ira Madison III O.J.? A liar.

 

Ira Madison III I’m so sorry.

 

Ira Madison III Now, I’ve heard it all. Next, you’re going to tell me if I did it. Is it a memoir?

 

Louis Virtel I know. I know. I know.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, he did do it?

 

Louis Virtel I know. It seems crazy.

 

Ira Madison III Great, huh? I think that we’re missing some iconography from Vogue, which is interesting because, you know, Vogue is very commercial.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah.

 

Ira Madison III You know, so, you know, it sells to a different audience. But I don’t know. I like to. Nicki Minaj’s cover.

 

Louis Virtel Her 73 questions was unusually subdued, but I kind of liked hearing that side of her. I kind of liked that. Like, I love I love like, an unamused Nicki.

 

Ira Madison III She was on some Xanax.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah. Right, right, right. Just like answering the questions and moving on. Yeah. It’s like she heard the number 73, and she’s like, I’m not wasting my time on any single one of these.

 

Ira Madison III 73. I’ll give you three. I will also say that her interview, though, with the Vogue podcast is fantastic and much better than the 73 questions.

 

Louis Virtel All right. I have not listened to that yet.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. Louis, what’s your Keep It?

 

Louis Virtel My Keep It makes me sad this week because I’m looking forward to this. I know you seem disappointed already, so I Keep It close to the movie quiz lady, which stars Awkwafina and Sandra. Oh.

 

Ira Madison III You love quizzes and Ladies.

 

Louis Virtel Both of my favorite things in one place. Finally had never been done. Like once every ten years we get a movie that is like, sort of remotely about trivia. You know, you get like quiz show in the nineties, Slumdog Millionaire and the 2000s. And now we have a Quiz Lady, which is a movie that is just on Hulu and it’s about Awkwafina plays a girl who her life kind of sucks and she’s obsessed with this TV show hosted by Will Ferrell. That’s a quiz show, and she eventually gets on it. Anyway, unfortunately, and I say this as somebody who wants to watch trivia all the time, literally as I drive to Palm Springs, I’m listening to like game shows on YouTube and just answering questions out loud to myself like a crazy person. Trivia is just not telegenic in a scripted narrative. Like, the point of trivia is that you don’t know if they’re going to get it right or not, and there has to be something genuine about whether they’re going to get it scripting. It doesn’t make it interesting. Like in the movie Quiz show, that movie is good because it’s about watching somebody cheat. Like you’re like, Oh, I have to fake that. I’m knowing this stuff. So you’re watching. Ray finds go through the motions of making himself endearing to an audience while pretending to come up with all these extremely difficult answers. Yeah, this movie doesn’t have much going on for it narrative wise, and I feel like both Awkwafina and Sandra, oh, playing her zany sister are making outsized character choices to compensate for a lack of interesting story. And it’s just like I’m so used to finding Sandra. Oh, like one of our best actresses. I mean, that’s somebody who’s amazing. And killing Eve, she’s the reason Gray’s Anatomy is a classic, as far as I’m concerned. You know, it’s that character who makes that show seem grounded at times when, you know, it’s not fucking grounded at all. That’s my least favorite thing I’ve seen Sandra Oh in.

 

Ira Madison III You mean ghosts? Talking to Katherine Heigl isn’t grounded.

 

Louis Virtel That still happening, by the way, on the set of this That’s Amore movie she’s doing with John Travolta? I absolutely know the ghosts are swirling.

 

Ira Madison III Aquafina in the film. She talking about some flavor.

 

Louis Virtel But you know what? No, actually.

 

Ira Madison III Okay.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah.

 

Ira Madison III Okay.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah.

 

Ira Madison III Back to basics.

 

Louis Virtel Yes. Correct. Right. Is she your sister like Joni Mitchell was last week? Yeah.

 

Ira Madison III Uh huh. You know what? I think that you are really going to like this upcoming trivia movie, though.

 

Louis Virtel Which is?

 

Ira Madison III I’m hoping my spec script gets on the Blacklist.

 

Louis Virtel Oh God, me, too.

 

Ira Madison III It’s called. It is called the Snap.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah.

 

Ira Madison III And it is about this.

 

Louis Virtel I’m going to play it.

 

Ira Madison III Gay YouTuber.

 

Louis Virtel What if I left?

 

Ira Madison III Who gets gets odds on Jeopardy, why fulfills his dream of meeting Alex Trebek?

 

Louis Virtel Oh, my God. Well, you can see the rising action is fabulous. I can’t wait to see who recreates this iconic moment. Lucas had just, Baby, where are you?

 

Ira Madison III But in my story.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, I can’t wait to hear your take on it.

 

Ira Madison III He’s closeted. He comes from a very religious family and so.

 

Louis Virtel Sorry, Mom.

 

Ira Madison III The drama is he can’t reveal that he’s gay. But when he does the snap.

 

Louis Virtel Alex says Fagot.

 

Ira Madison III He comes out.

 

Louis Virtel Merv Griffin rises from the dead and says, Hey, Queen, I’m back.

 

Ira Madison III Who would play you?

 

Louis Virtel I think again, I always say, if anybody has to be Lucas Hedges, Right. Deep, sad eyes, you know, Pale boy. I mean, it’s all there.

 

Ira Madison III That’s true. That’s true. Lucas Hedges with glasses. I see it, right?

 

Louis Virtel What a vision. You’re like, Barbara. You have a vision and you’re not wavering.

 

Ira Madison III All right. That’s our show this week. Thank you to Emerald Fennell for being here.

 

Louis Virtel She was awesome. I hope she comes back again soon.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, I think she’ll keep making movies.

 

Louis Virtel In my opinion, she will too.

 

Ira Madison III I see that for her.

 

Louis Virtel Yes, right.

 

Ira Madison III Honestly, I see. Maybe not her next movie. I think within the next two movies she’s going to be in it.

 

Louis Virtel Definitely. We miss her from The Crown. We don’t even get into The crown.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. And I think we’re going to get some probably Barbra directing Yentl style videos of her directing herself. And that would be very fun.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, fuck yes. We way more of those things. Yes.

 

Ira Madison III All right. We’ll see you next week.

 

Unidentified *theme music*.

 

Ira Madison III Keep It is a Crooked Media production. Our senior producer is Kendra James. Our producer is Chris Lord and our associate producer is Malcolm Whitfield. Our executive producers are Ira Madison, the third and Louis Virtel.

 

Louis Virtel This episode was recorded and mixed by Evan Sutton. Thank you to our digital team, Meghan Patsel and Rachel Gaewski, and to Matt DeGroot and David Toles for production support every week.

 

Ira Madison III And as always, Keep It as recorded in front of a live studio audience.