Coachella, OJ Simpson with Nick Offerman | Crooked Media
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April 17, 2024
Keep It
Coachella, OJ Simpson with Nick Offerman

In This Episode

Ira and Louis discuss Coachella 2024, OJ Simpson’s death and other celeb scandals, and more. Nick Offerman joins to discuss his new film Civil War, his creative influences, and being half of comedy’s funniest couple.

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Ira Madison III And we are back with an all new episode of Keep It. I’m Ira Madison, the third. Hiding out in Palm Springs.


Louis Virtel Oh, glamor, I’m Louis Virtel, and can I hear a little bit of a mild dust storm in your voice? Did you maybe inhale, some desert air? I’m getting the movie tremors. From what I’m hearing in your voice.


Ira Madison III Not tremors.


Louis Virtel Reba’s best acting moment. Take that. Annie, get your gun.


Ira Madison III Yeah. I was at Coachella this past weekend, as I want to do. Yeah. Every year. And also, I am recovering from the Coachella flu, as it were. Not really sick, but there is a certain congestion that happens when you are in the desert. For multiple days on in inhaling dust.


Louis Virtel Mother of God. No, I was very jealous watching all the clips of the weekend. As I said, I knew Doja Cat would do something frightening. And one it was the fur bikini. And then two, it was the cousin outfit, which, she got me to my feet and I was just sitting in my own home. So good for her.


Ira Madison III Yeah. We will. We’re going to talk about, my Coachella experience this episode, but wow. Doja was truly, like, the last thing I saw.


Louis Virtel Before you blacked out for good.


Ira Madison III Yeah. Yes. Headline Saturday night, and I saw the Scarlet tour recently. And just how she, you know, visually did something completely different for the Coachella show was sort of amazing. It’s actually been really amazing. Her in particular, her trajectory over the past year. She’s she had her sort of unfortunate, terrible moment where she was didn’t give a fuck about the industry. Did you give a fuck about her fans? All of the responses to her making a song, called demons, and being demonic and people not liking that, and then now being praised as one of the, you know, the best headliners since, Beyoncé, did betrayal. It’s just, the swing that she’s done has been fantastic to see, and it’s really just because she seems, however, she acts, when she is fed up with people, are fed up with the mystery, she’s always devoted to just, like, giving you the best shit she can give you.


Louis Virtel I also just forget when I look at the Coachella lineup and seeing all the names there, I just assume. Oh, it’s like a bunch of these artists has run to the festival and put on a show. But know what you’re actually getting at Coachella almost every time is a very bespoke experience from that artist. You know, like, I really should take the cue of Bachelor here, where you go over there and you’re going to be watching something you’re not going to see anywhere else. You know, like someone like, I don’t know, Carly Rae Jepsen, for example. I kind of see her a lot. And so I’m thinking, I’m going to go to Coachella and it’s going to be another version of that. But know the demand when once you’re there is to bring something hyper large and, you know, super throbbing as opposed to just, you know, we hope, right, or something. Not to not to disparage my beloved. We hope. Right. And Tinashe, who I believe are still trapped there. Yes.


Ira Madison III Yeah. Tanasha did a fantastic set at Coachella, by the way.


Louis Virtel I imagine if she didn’t, that’s all she does.


Ira Madison III Yeah, it was her first Coachella. And I would say that yes, the the people who sort of lose at Coachella are the people who are already on tour. And it’s just sort of a they treat it as a tour stop at it is we’re just going to do the exact same show that people are already getting in any other city. For a lot of other people, it’s either their first Coachella or they really want to make it sort of, pop because it’s also being live streamed, right? It’s being live stream and everyone can watch it. So it behooves you to do something a little bit different for Coachella and also to use it as a calling card. Sort of an advertisement for your tour. Got it, got it.


Louis Virtel Well, we will get into that as well as I can’t believe this is sort of the take we’re going with this week, but, OJ Simpson died. And so to celebrate and air quotes and asterisks, we’re going to talk about our favorite tabloid manias just of all time. Pick a couple of ones that have stuck in our craw that we’ve enjoyed, that we continue to digest. Doing a lot of bird chewing metaphors today. I can explain that.


Ira Madison III That is an interesting take. That O.J. Simpson died because. Right. I don’t know if I believe it. Yeah. The juice is still loose.


Louis Virtel Yeah, right. The story doesn’t fit. You must acquit. I don’t have the joke that. I’m sorry. That was a glimpse inside my creative process.


Ira Madison III While we also get a glimpse inside, another artist’s, fantastic creative process today because we talked to Nick Offerman.


Louis Virtel I have to say, look, we’ve had a lot of wonderful like Carla Gugino just recently. It was fabulous to talk to. The street continues sitting with this man. You just want to hold on to the table and listen to the the the woodworker quality. That is his voice. It just feels like somebody who is a carpenter, which is what he has. It’s he’s so thoughtful and so fabulous. And we could have done the whole episode just talking to him about anything and not even just his own credits. He could be talking about any old play and would be interested and interesting.


Ira Madison III No, I was I feel like the only disappointing thing about the interview is, you know, he is listing off all these sort of plays coming from Chicago theater himself, like The Kentucky Psycho by like Robert Sheik. And it’s like, I can’t even there’s no time to dive into all of that. Just like every random theater reference that he makes. And my I know that playwright. I know that they let’s talk about it for several hours. So we got, we have to get him back at some point. But this is a fantastic, interview, with Nick Offerman with a lot of metaphors.


Louis Virtel Oh, yeah. As he well known himself. You’ll enjoy it.


Ira Madison III Yeah. I think he birthed maybe at least three memoir titles. Right.


Louis Virtel That’s. It should be mining this episode for future, sales. Yes.


Ira Madison III So we will be right back with more Keep It.




Ira Madison III We’ve officially closed the books on Coachella Weekend one, and possibly the careers of everyone on Grimes as Team No.


Louis Virtel Oh, God. Wait. What happened?


Ira Madison III So, for those who didn’t see the headlines or weren’t there, see a grub stew? Her DJ set? It was giving Frank ocean level mess. Really? This one? This one was unintentional. And I said, Frank. I would still classify as worse than grise because the sort of, I don’t care to be here attitude was a little bit more annoying last year, and the coming on late was also aggravating. Particularly because if your set is 30 minutes after it was supposed to start, then it is going to be much shorter than anticipated. Yes. Especially with a Sunday night headline. And we’re all standing there waiting for this festival to be over.


Louis Virtel And all his team is sitting there, like using a hose to water down an ice rink or whatever happened that year. It was so zany.


Ira Madison III The ice rink he didn’t want to use anymore. Yeah, right.


Louis Virtel I know the feeling.


Ira Madison III Grabs a deejay, and basically she’s trying to track the BPM of the music in her head instead of using headphones, I believe. But there’s just many instances where the music is stopping. And there are other technical difficulties. And it became a problem, mostly because she kept communicating to the audience that there were technical difficulties at apologizing and tried to explain what was happening. And listen, this is a crowd of people on drugs. Yes, dancing the music. And all of a sudden now you are trying to explain things to them.


Louis Virtel Well, let me just say, I feel like a lot of the time when I go to a warehouse party or something where there’s like extremely throbbing loud music, you know, there’s a vibe in that atmosphere, and it feels to me like about half the time somebody will get on a mic, cut the mic and just start talking about something for a second. And I’m like, I feel like this is a dystopian moment. Like, I am utterly lizard brained right now, and you are asking me to process words as if I am in an airport and I’m at the wrong place.


Ira Madison III I always feel like it is better to just let us sit in silence for a brief moment and not say anything. Yeah, because I just think it’s part of the show and.


Louis Virtel Right. And then no matter what, music comes next. I’m so excited to hear it because it’s not silence.


Ira Madison III Yes. I mean, speaking of music that she did play, the visuals, first of all for Grimes are fucking fantastic. And there was a bullet where there’s this, sort of robotic spider walking around, the stage by.


Louis Virtel Her that’s giving John Peters ideas for a wild, wild bust. Yes.


Ira Madison III But she played in her set. The Ting Tings. That’s not my name. And I did not realize how much that song is. Crack cocaine. Oh.


Louis Virtel I mean, if the term pop off wasn’t invented because of that song, it’s about exactly that time period. You know, around the time of shows like Bad Girls Club. It applies exactly to that song. Yeah. It’s like. It’s like the best possible version of both a paramour song and an Avril Lavigne song.


Ira Madison III Yeah. It comes on, and I tell you, we were where we were standing in the crowd. We were rushed by just sort of, younger millennial, older Gen Z, girls who just sort of, like, had to get closer. You know, that feeling with you or the crowd and, you know, a sort of song comes on from an artist, and then just people who are the back are so energized that they’re running forward. It was it was a stampede. I felt like somebody.


Louis Virtel That was cut out of the movie went him being a tenting stand.


Ira Madison III Yeah. But yeah. So I could go, you know, from the beginning of arriving at Coachella. Yeah.


Louis Virtel Oh, a travelog experience. This is very inviting. You’re like Joni Mitchell.


Ira Madison III Yeah. Well, so first of all, there was a there’s a pre-party at Coachella, which is basically one of my favorite performances that I saw. In a funny way, it was good, but it sort of exemplifies who’s this artist is the first day that we arrived there, there was a party by paper magazine, and sweetie performed.


Louis Virtel Oh, Radiohead’s, to the enth. We enjoy.


Ira Madison III Yeah, it was beautiful. Watching Saweetie arrive to the party. I have video of her arriving with her security team within one minute. She was on the stage. Purse still on.


Louis Virtel Aretha. It’s giving Aretha.


Ira Madison III She did a 20 minute set, and then she was bye ya’ll, and left.


Louis Virtel Wow. Like downright antisocial. Do we think the cash money was in the purse as Aretha preferred?


Ira Madison III Absolutely. They they handed it to her before she walked on stage, and she was like, this is how I do it.


Louis Virtel Petty theft. Yeah.


Ira Madison III And then Friday, of course, let me say something about this. Coachella. I feel like you’re talking about the lineup before the headliners were Tyler, the Creator. They were Doja Cat. They were a lot of Del Rey. And that, of course, no doubt as a special headliner guests. And, you know, every year there’s not sort of a Beyonce say there’s not a Billie Eilish. People sort of, you know, critique the lineup and there’s a stake that, you know, you need these big stars. There’s this sort of idea that if you don’t have these bigger headliners, that the overall festival is gonna lack, you know? But I feel like. When there are so many different artists that you really enjoy just all playing for three days, you’re you’re going to have an amazing experience. And I felt like this ended up being one of my favorite coachella’s because it was it centered around. I focused on only seeing like, Beyonce day to day.


Louis Virtel Yeah, right. No, because it’s like a gladiatorial event. Like, I’m here to see this one thing when I go to Coachella most of the time. And so when it’s just like everybody feels sort of like they get their own space and you get to respect them for it, and you’re not looking at your watch being like, But I’ve got to get to Beyonce. I’m sure that’s kind of a relief.


Ira Madison III Yeah. And also ask me about anything else that happened the year Beyonce performed.


Louis Virtel Precisely. Yeah, I don’t recall.


Ira Madison III Right. So Friday opened up with I do want to call out White Claw for scamming me because we were invited to this special sort of event with Charlie X, and I’m thinking, this is going to be a DJ set. This is going to be maybe she’s performing one of her new songs. We arrive into this White Claw activation, as it were. Everyone likes to call things activations, and Charlie sort of walks in, and then we are all corralled into a meet and greet photo op with her okay, performance whatsoever, which is which is fine. You know, in theory, you know, you get a photo with that artist that you love. You get to chat with her for a bit, but I was expecting something else. And I was like, I don’t even know if I want a photo right now, right?


Louis Virtel Also, something about like, I’m being corralled into a photo with celebrity is just not extremely lovely vibes. I don’t need pictures of celebrities personally, but I will say, I do think maybe nobody has consumed more White Claws in history than the fans of Charlie X, so I do want to congratulate the ad marketing team for putting that together.


Ira Madison III One of the first people that I saw on Friday is, of course, continuing this journey of listening, learning, discovering new things about myself. It was Chapel Road. Girl, I love this bitch.


Louis Virtel We’re signing on to her. I was initially questioning the extent, the physical esthetic, you know, the Raggedy Andy look, the Raggedy Ann look. But the voice is fabulous. And she really is somebody who’s focused on a gigantic pop hook, which is sort of not really. I like again, I like it when it comes from Ava max and there are a couple people who, like, just hit you with a big hook, but she’s also bringing a sardonic edge, which is very welcome.


Ira Madison III Yeah, it’s a Lady Gaga esque and a bit in the sense that there’s the pop hooks, there’s the sort of theatricality that’s going on here. But man, she was a great fucking performer. Yeah, it was a great show. The Chapel Road fans. I’m still on the fence about.


Louis Virtel Well, I have to say.


Ira Madison III A little weird.


Louis Virtel I, as I always bring out my brother Jim. One time I think he tweeted it. He said, all fanbases suck, and I do what I say when anybody stans. One thing you know, that means they’re missing out on a large portion of the world and maybe some essential nutrients just in their life. I question fanbases, generally speaking, but I kind of like the people who are gathering behind Chapel Road. I think everybody is sort of surprised they love it so much. You know, like, how is this person been around so many years and I haven’t signed on already?


Ira Madison III I’m surprised that there are so many straight people doing poppers at her show.


Louis Virtel I see concerning, that’s I’m your culture isn’t my costume or whatever it is, like that whole thing. Just be concerned with that. Me and my friends deserve to have scabs around our nostrils. Okay? Not you.


Ira Madison III Now, I don’t know. What do you think about, tiny princess Sabrina Carpenter, but she was also great at. I’m obsessed with her new song, espresso.


Louis Virtel I haven’t heard it yet.


Ira Madison III It’s it’s giving pop masterpiece. It’s giving pop suburb pop.


Louis Virtel Finally I you know what I always think about in regards to summer music or song of the summer? I think it’s something that really became important to people because of Teenage Dream and the song California Girls, which you feel like a beach ball is being tossed around like we miss the literal summery ness of that. We have had so few of those since that time, like there are so few definitive songs of the summer. So when you say that, that gets me excited to rekindle 2010 and the cash ification of the world, which I, you know, I think is dwindling, even though I loved what I saw of her at Coachella.


Ira Madison III With Rene Rapp. Yeah. She appeared.


Louis Virtel What a great pair.


Ira Madison III You sort of wouldn’t expect it, but once you see it, it’s perfect. And Rene Rapp just sort of has this quality. She had a big black sort of overcoat. She had her black bra, giving some lesbian rocker down. Yes. And she had no other set, really, besides just her microphone. And it was just everyone had so much fun at that concert. And Kesha, of course, changed her lyric “Wake up in the morning feeling like P Diddy” to “feeling like fuck P Diddy.” so


Louis Virtel Yes.


Ira Madison III That was fun.


Louis Virtel Also jokes. Yes funny.


Ira Madison III Yeah.


Louis Virtel Also Rene Rapp in general. The way she dresses. She really you kind of just nailed that like that. Crystal Waters-y mid 90s fit. She does that maybe better than everybody. And it really fits the queerness too. It just it says something about her. I really enjoy it.


Ira Madison III Yeah. I want to say that there is this also idea that this was going to be sort of a lesser Coachella, but all of the celebrities were fucking there. You had Taylor Swift and Travis Kelsey just hanging out in the artist section, watching, Dom doll, watching. I spice, having Ice Spice basically be the third wheel on their date. Right. And most of the videos that you see them.


Louis Virtel In, I was shocked to see Taylor Swift. I don’t know why in, like, a baseball cap and Baker, like, she was playing the lead character in drive, walking away from a getaway.


Ira Madison III It is sort of weird to imagine her being there, but also she was just recently spotted at parties beanery of all places in West Hollywood. And you always forget that when she has an album coming out, that orbit is everywhere, right?


Louis Virtel And even the smallest appearance, like, has this butterfly effect where everybody in the world hears about it. Yes, Barney’s Beanery is right near where I work out, and it is run by alums of the University of Iowa. So they play all the basketball games and stuff there. So if I want French onion soup and straight people to play the game of billiards next to me, that is where I go.


Ira Madison III Yeah. My other favorite highlights were obviously, for me, no doubt was the pinnacle of the weekend. And I have heard some mixed things online from people, but everyone that I was with and everybody who was sort of experienced no doubt before it experienced Gwen Stefani prior to solo Gwen Stefani. Had a fucking blast, and it was so much fun seeing her take on that character again.


Louis Virtel Yes, you know what I always think about one time when she made an appearance on the, Jimmy Fallon Tonight Show, it was right when he was doing the beginning of his the lip syncs he would do that would become the show Lip Sync Battle. But she appeared, and I forget what she was lip syncing as a live performer. What she was doing the like, kind of like the swimmy dance moves and the, like, kind of light thrusting she does. She is so captivating to watch live. You don’t think of. No. I mean, even though No Doubt has scar beginnings and they’re a fabulous band, I don’t think of them as like a definitive live act. And I think she is probably best experienced live.


Ira Madison III Yeah. And I will say that for a lot of people who watch, it’s just sort of that experience, this version of Gwen ever, or haven’t seen it in decades, just seeing her in this sort of like, scar personality, just sort of walking around the stage, you know, singing raspy, shouting out random things while she’s performing like that was that was sort of like vintage in no doubt and what it was. And we sort of lost, I would say that quality of. Female performer in a band like that, just genre of music. That sort of attitude that exists on stage doesn’t really happen anymore. It’s sort of in a time capsule.


Louis Virtel Yeah, right.


Ira Madison III Front front women of bands. There’s just sort of there’s a different way to act like a rock artist now. And you’re not acting like a girl from Orange County in the late 80s, early 90s, making Sky music with, like, sublime and everything else. You know.


Louis Virtel It’s like what you’re saying is the quality of bodacious ness is lacking in the world today. Bodacious is exactly what she was. That was the whole thing she brought to, no doubt. But I saw a clip of her performing Bathwater at Coachella.


Ira Madison III With Olivia Rodrigo.


Louis Virtel Yes, definitely a song that should be experienced live. I mean, I like this the studio recording of it off a really good album, Return of Saturn. But there, her screaming it alongside Olivia Rodrigo. It became so anthemic.


Ira Madison III Yeah, at Olivia Rodrigo. Actually feels a lot like the perfect person to take on that no doubt mantle. Like, she just seems like a rocker who has studied at, you know, the altar of people like Gwen Stefani.


Louis Virtel Oh, yeah. The music is designed to, I think, seem like a successor to all of that music to.


Ira Madison III Yes, I will say that obviously for a lot of people this was a lot of challah. And you know what? I enjoy a lot of Del Rey. I’m wearing a lot of shirt right now from Coachella, but there’s something about a lot of Del Rey where if you are obsessed with her, you were sobbing, you were having a spiritual experience. It was like you were in a cult. If you are interested in many of her songs and have not fully listened to all of her albums because, you know, they are sort of, chillax your high at home music.


Louis Virtel And I’ll say a slightly dreary if there’s a dreariness. That’s all right.


Ira Madison III Watching a concert that long from her was a bit of a chore. Yeah. Yeah, there were parts where I was interested, Ed. There were parts where there was a big lull. I was really into it when Billie Eilish showed up and they say, oh, shadows together.


Louis Virtel Amazing, amazing performance. And like, just it doesn’t spring to top of mind that they would be a perfect fit for each other. But like, they definitely do that. I’m a whispering character in the dark thing. Why wouldn’t we pair them together?


Ira Madison III And then obviously other bigger highlights work flow. Amazing girl group out of the UK. They’re really sort of coming up now with music being produced by Harmony K for them and they’re sort of Destiny’s Child throwback vibes. So they were a highlight. Victoria monet was fucking amazing.


Louis Virtel I loved what I saw, Victoria monet and also just continue to love her renaissance. There’s just such a quality of the music there that is rare for someone who’s getting that popular, like somebody where it’s like a particular Grammy win. I will always remember, you know, Best New Artist is not always a triumph.


Ira Madison III People who were shockingly great to me, not shockingly. But, you know, I hadn’t really expected them to be sort of swaying, serving, as it were. I surprised Bebe Rexha.


Louis Virtel I thought Bebe Rexha sounded fabulous and I spice I, you know, I’m a fit. The personality. I’m a huge fan. The music I like.


Ira Madison III Yeah, a lot of the songs sound the same to me, but she had a bust out on, you know, the wig, the hair was flowing, the set was fun. She kept you entertained, and that’s really sort of all that you really need, from these people. And lastly, I will say that I obviously go to a lot of DJ sets. You know, a lot of it is queer heavy ghetto. There’s Heidi.


Louis Virtel Yes.


Ira Madison III And is who played and, you know, she did her honey thing, on this new stage called Kazaa, which is sort of like where she played there. JB she played there. It’s sort of a very long stage that does it. That’s, you know, it’s horizontal in scope and not really vertical. So I don’t love it as a stage because it’s sort of it’s sort of invites you to pass by it, give a glance and then just sort of leave. It feels like it’s a stop on the way, some somewhere else. Like it doesn’t really feel like a full stage. So we did spend a lot of time there.


Louis Virtel It doesn’t have anything to do with Kazaa from Big Brother.


Ira Madison III It. No. Absolutely not. Unfortunately. Okay.


Louis Virtel Well, now I’m definitely not going to participate.


Ira Madison III But a lot of the DJs that I got into this weekend were people I can only describe as drag. It’s.


Louis Virtel There’s a lot more of them than ever.


Ira Madison III There are. There is this new era of straight DJ who is just sort of so queer adjacent in either their style of dress. There’s Clooney, and I’m not talking about pulling up in the Danny Ocean. Yeah. I’m talking it’s spelled c l o o n e Kim painting his nails. BlackBerry. Carson Daly very. Everybody’s in the third. Yeah. There’s Dom Dahl. There’s John Summit. These people have gay fan bases, and when they play music like, all three of them, played at this after party, called framework, which were all of the gays appeared at is sort of, you know, what it’s like at a horse beat disco. But imagine all of the gays in the center of the dance floor doing all of that behavior, surrounded by straight people. They were sort of segregated to the center.


Louis Virtel They’re the the eye of the tornado. Yes.


Ira Madison III Yeah it is. We don’t want to see that shit. All of you be in the center here. Just all these shirtless gays making out with each other. But they, these DJ is played this after party framework, and their job summit is giving you, like this gay circuit party music.


Louis Virtel I mean, gay circuit party music. I can hear of any party I go to, but the idea that, like, straight people are producing, was it Diplo who did like a, he did some sort of gay party and then pictures afterwards came out.


Ira Madison III Like I says, Pegasus.


Louis Virtel And excuse me, he did. He took a picture of the audience. Girl, we need you to sign an NDA next time. I was looking in the pupils of that picture, it was giving raccoons needing a hit or something. I don’t know, it was very shocking. And I also recognize half the people. It looked like a picture you would see in, like, the police blotter in the 70s. Like, look at all these greens.


Ira Madison III Out at night. I want to say lastly about these, the, you know, the straggly deejays appearing in the music scene, we’re going to see a lot more obviously photos of the dance floor, etc., because he’s taking one and there’s going to be a new audience of people there. Let’s do less of that. You’re right. You are. You’re recognizing people, even if you’re just taking a video yourself at the party, tilted up to the DJ. Yeah, and not the crowd, because I’m looking through people’s Instagram stories and I’m like, okay, well, now I see. Now see what Gus Kenworthy was doing at 3:00.


Louis Virtel That’s what I mean, right? No, I don’t need to know exactly how much you’re sweating at 345. Right.


Ira Madison III If you’re going to party with the kids, you’re going to have to sign a nondisclosure. Yeah.


Louis Virtel Please. Please.


Ira Madison III Anyway, Coachella was great. Yes. I’m going to go back, obviously.


Louis Virtel And your voice seems to have come back since you’ve started talking. So I think you’ve been truly energized by the festival ultimately.


Ira Madison III Well, thank you, Red bull, who also paid for my ticket.


Louis Virtel Sugar free or not?


Ira Madison III Sugar free.


Louis Virtel Okay, good. I call it sugar free. Red Bull, Carly Rae Jepsen because who better lives the feel of our sugary Red bell than Carly Rae Jepsen?


Ira Madison III Although a lot of guys are drinking regular red ball with vodka now because I get the same thing that some people say when they drink Coca Cola as opposed to Diet Coke. They’re like, If I’m going to drink it, I want the real taste.


Louis Virtel I call this Halo top syndrome. We just want the real ice cream. Yeah.


Ira Madison III All right. When we are back, we are joined by the fantastic Nick Offerman to talk about his exciting new movie, Civil War.




Ira Madison III This week’s guest has become one of our most beloved faces and voices, from his leading roles in Parks and Recreation and Devs to an unforgettable Emmy-winning performance in The Last of Us to being one-half of comedy’s funniest couple. He’s now leading a war torn America at his latest project, Civil War. Please welcome to Keep It, Nick Offerman.


Nick Offerman Thank you.


Ira Madison III Hello.


Louis Virtel It was nice watching you kind of ponder your credits there. He put you put his rested his hand in his face. It seems like. I guess I was in those. Come to think of it.


Nick Offerman I was picturing them in a thought bubble.


Louis Virtel I’ll be in your Kennedy Center Honors someday, so just make sure you get them all straight chronologically in your head.


Nick Offerman I really appreciate your optimism.


Ira Madison III I want to ask you about this film, which is incredible. I’m such a fan of Alex Garland. And, it’s this dystopian view of America. The Civil War has broken out. There’s obviously a lot going on within the script, to just sort of figure out as a viewer of it, I would love to know when you first got this, just sort of what questions you had for Alex and whether or not he answered any of them, or if they were just for you to figure out.


Nick Offerman Well, thank you first and foremost for your generous introduction. And, I concur. I’m a huge fan of Alex, for many years, and so I was absolutely flabbergasted when he, he turned his gaze my way to be in his show devs. And we became great friends. And I’m. I’m Megan makes fun of me because I’m openly besotted with him. I, I just get huge googly heart eyes whenever I’m around Alex. And, and so when he sent me the script for Civil War, and I want you to play the president of the United States, I ate a good long laugh and then read the script and immediately was just struck with what I love about him. He he’s a novelist. First, he started in his 20s writing novels, one of which was The Beach, which became that DiCaprio movie. And then that was his intro into filmmaking. And he transitioned from, like, screenwriter into full blown filmmaker. And, when I first read the script, the thing I love about him is his novelist’s brain. He has this I always like in him to Kubrick him that he seems to be thinking a few levels above the rest of us, and I think it’s so generous and really belies his sensitivity and his sort of love of humanity that he wrote this movie as, as a sort of cautionary tale for all of us without ever succumbing to the, the temptation of getting into concurrent politics at all. I mean, we all imagined ourselves to be, you know, pretty clever in one way or another. And if we were any of us, I think, were to write a a movie about contemporary American, Civil War, we couldn’t help I for speaking for myself. I couldn’t help but say, and let me just sneak in a few, admonitions for that particular other side, you know, and and somehow think that we could, like, score some points for the good guys. And instead I read this movie and I just thought, this is so incredible. I immediately get it. I immediately get the medicinal quality of not telling us who are the two sides in the Civil War? Who is the is the president Republican or Democrat or something else? We don’t know any of this stuff. It’s in this slightly set in the future fictional America. And so I said, yes, of course, Alex, anything you ever need me to do, I will I will leap to your side with my googly heart eyes. But I said, the thing to relish about this is we don’t need to know any of the of a lot of this backstory, because as soon as you start to ask him, like, so tell me about the Western forces comprised of California and Texas. And he says, well, yeah, that’s part of it. The whole point of it is to just immediately establish that this can’t be related to this America that we’re living in. This is this is much more of, a representation of the world, you know, here, here’s this advanced government, here’s a rebel force. Florida is also. Seceding, so it’s just representing modern fractionalized governments. You know, fascism is not a new invention. You could substitute a lot of world countries for America in this movie. And so, we just pretty quickly in the conversation just started talking about, like, what my guy would look like and, and what, what tools out of my toolbox he wanted for the president. By which I mean, how full of shit do you want this guy to be? You know, do you want him to be openly full of shit like some presidents we could imagine? Or do you want him to be doing his best? You know, to to be sincere. But still have to be somewhat full of shit. Like, like any modern politician is required to be, apparently.


Louis Virtel Thinking about this movie and Alex Garland, like, when I watched annihilation, I kept thinking as I watched that movie, there’s so much here that I feel like you couldn’t even explain to the actors in it you could like, but there’s not just visually a lot of interesting things going on, but the feel of the movie, how it lingers on you as something that I feel like you can’t even express within the confines of a script. And I feel like you must have known going into this, that there’s something about the feel of the movie that’s not even going to be, you know, you’re not going to it’s going to be conveyed in script form. Do you like feeling that sense of a filmmaker who’s bringing something you probably can’t even detect in a script?


Nick Offerman Absolutely. I mean, you’re totally right, Lewis, that, going in, I mean, because Alex would, if he were here with us, he would say, yeah, I don’t I don’t even know that it’s there until I create, like, I liken it to, he when he and his, his incredible DP, Rob Hardy, when they, when they create the, the picture, I feel like they’re sort of creating a palette full of paint colors, which then Alex takes into the editing booth with, with his editor, Jake Roberts, and together then they figure out the painting and the tone. And a great example is, when I was sort of getting ready as an actor, as me working myself up to do these opening speeches for the movie, Alex was watching me, and just in the moment he said, oh, you know what? Let’s roll on this. Let’s shoot this. I like this. I like this sort of, behind the The Wizard of Oz, behind the curtain quality to this mountebank preparing his snake oil, speech. And he shot it. And then I was talking with the the editor, Jake, at the at the movie’s release, and he said, you know, I love this about Alex so much. We were having a tough time figuring out how to open the movie with a punch. We we couldn’t come up with, like, the impact we wanted. And only then did he remember that he had shot this extra stuff of me, and he said, oh shit, hang on, I’ve got this stuff. And so he they dropped that in where you see the president, as a guy preparing his song and dance, and suddenly that was the in. It was like, okay, the world’s on fire. And here’s, here’s the the America’s leader preparing to say everything’s cool. That’s the end. That’s, and I mean, was annihilation, I agree, I mean, I don’t think anyone, including Alex could have imagined the the incredibly anomalous and otherworldly filmic sensations that he created, especially in the act three of annihilation. Once they get to the lighthouse, for for those in the know, it’s it’s unlike, with the exception of that dinosaur sequence in Terrence Malick’s Tree of Life, those are the only those are the only two pieces of filmmaking I’ve seen in my life that made me feel like the Sagrada Familia cathedral in Barcelona. Gaudi’s like crazy, trippy, organic masterpiece where I’m like, okay, you have just touched God like you have just taken me and like pulled open the fabric of of Western civilization. And we’ve looked at God here for a second.


Louis Virtel The sublime is what you’re talking about. That’s exactly the word sublime. Yes.


Nick Offerman The thing is, he does it so beautifully with music also in his sound design. But that’s the thing. Once you once you see a few of his pieces and then you get to actually collaborate with them, you go in knowing that he has that skill set and that you’re just you’re there making the colors with them. And later he’s going to figure out what colors he’s going to put together.


Ira Madison III This is a bit of a sideways question, but related to. Alex. And this project, people largely know you for comedy, you know, and that you have shifted, recently to, you know, devs and then last of us and now this these sort of like, sci fi, projects that are very, sort of heady. You’re thinking about a lot of things involving the world and like the future and just listening to you talk. You’re such a template of a person with a lot of cultural references, sort of what we do constantly. And I just sort of wonder what interests you culturally that you digest, like books wise or movie wise, like something that you like to read or take in, that informs your own cultural worldview or your comedy or even your acting.


Nick Offerman It’s it’s a funny thing. I, I just had a big meeting with my, my agents yesterday to sort of look at the state of the, of the union of, of my jam. And one of them said something about my choices and, where my career is going and phrases like that, I always shake my head because, for better or worse, I come from Chicago theater, a great little theater company called the Defiant Theater. And I’ve never been, sort of, out in front cast a talent where, like, my wife, the incredible Megan Mullally. She’s. She’s the kind of kid who grew up who’s so bristling with talent that what when any kids got together and, like, let’s put on a show, they’re like, oh, we have Megan. Okay, you’re the lead. Now let’s figure out what all the Nick Offerman are going to do for me. For many years, I would carry the Megan Mullally on and off stage, and I considered it a privilege to do so. Over the years, I just respond to what writing moves me and and it could be completely stupid comedy. It could be crazy medicinal video game, HBO series, like. Or it could be like Rob Corddry web series Children’s Hospital. It could come from any of a number of directions. And Megan is the same. As long as we get the writing and we say, ooh, this is the good shit, and you know that if the writing is good, it’s also going to attract other people, like minded people that we generally get along with and want to work with. I have such a mishmash of influences in my youth. I grew up in a cultural vacuum in a small town in Illinois, and so it wasn’t until college that I met my cool theater school friends and they started giving me David Lynch, Laurie Anderson, William Burroughs, David Byrne, Talking Heads, They Might Be Giants, Neil Gaiman’s, graphic novels and on and on. I also have this whole crazy, weird side to me that I’m a woodworker. I have a wood shop in Los Angeles. I come from a family that is half farmers. And so I also am fascinated with agrarian agriculture, which basically means living in a way for all of us that is sustainable with Mother Nature’s resources, which makes sense when you put it like that. But then if you hold that up against our modern consumerist society, you see the incredible disparities, and, and so that having an awareness of that, despite being a total jackass in my youth and like a bong champion and a an a total hedonist, the older I get, the more I try to time my choices and my work to a sense of responsible values, delivering the medicine to my audience in whatever way I can. That’s like, I can make you laugh. I can make you feel things. But also, let’s think about who’s growing our food, and at what cost or profit. When you are a theater kid, you just kind of do your best to, to find yourself cast within the season every year. And that could be comedy, Shakespeare, you know, Harold Pinter, you name it. You just try to have a toolbox and a versatility, which I love. One, like one acting thing in Chicago for this great play called The Kentucky Cycle. And it was like a seven hour Pulitzer Prize winning drama. And it was playing absolutely, horrible villain characters that I loved making the audience, love to hate these guys in this play. And so to them, I was like a dramatic actor. Over the years, Parks and Recreation has been the most visible thing. Perhaps now with, The Last of Us. And so the audience’s perception is like, oh, I thought you played. Tennis. But here you are playing basketball. And I’m like, yes, I’m one of those people who can handle, at least two balls.


Louis Virtel That should be at the top of your resume. I can handle at least two balls.


Nick Offerman Or my epitaph, yeah.


Louis Virtel You brought up Megan Mullally now. And I just think, Ira and I have talked about this before. I call these celebrity couples salt and pepper couples, but feels like they were destined to be together, like, out of a constellation of celebrities. Certain people just like Peter Sarsgaard and Maggie Gyllenhaal. It’s exactly right. I can’t explain the math. You know, Mel Brooks, Anne Bancroft, like, certain people just should be together. And when I think of you two, I feel like your experience in television qualifies you to be those kinds of couples. In what ways do your tastes differ the most? What do you disagree on the most when it comes to the arts?


Nick Offerman That’s that’s a great question, and thank you for comparing me to Anne Bancroft and Maggie Gyllenhaal.


Louis Virtel We’d love we’d love to see you in like, The Elephant Man or like, yeah, I mean, Anne Bancroft, Agnes of God.


Ira Madison III Yeah.


Nick Offerman I appreciate.


Ira Madison III It.


Nick Offerman I’d say more like Peter Boyle and Madeline Kahn. I’m a perfectly healthy fan of myself and think I’m as cute as the day is long, but at the same time, I own a mirror. Like if Donkey and Shrek had a baby, that would be me. And Megan would be Cameron Diaz, I guess. Yeah. So I’m very much the donkey of our household. Megan. Among her, her many talents and attributes has exquisite, sophisticated taste. I’m super good at carrying luggage and, like, splitting firewood and, and running a grill and a meat smoker and, like, doing the dishes. So where we converge is our love of weird. Like, when we first met doing a play, she was getting ready to record her first record with her first band called Supreme Music Program. And she sang me a couple of Tom Waits songs, like In My Ear backstage at a play. Ruby’s arms was the first one she sang to me. And if you know that song and you imagine Megan Mullally singing it softly into your ear, I defy you not to fucking marry her, to like if it was done at that moment, I was like, all right, tell me what to do with the rest of my life. You’ve done it.


Ira Madison III Louis, especially loves award shows and sort of hosting in general. So I’m asking this before him, but, you know, you host making it with Amy Poehler, and then you’ve also done, the Independent Spirit Awards with Meghan. Is that sort of a skill that you have enjoyed tapping into being an emcee?


Nick Offerman Absolutely. I hosted the Webby Awards in New York, like so it’s something that I’ve done enough of. I’ve done maybe 4 or 5 such things, and a couple of them with Megan. We hosted the awards at Sundance. One year, the award ceremony, and we wrote a song. I’m so proud of it. The bit was we said that, this is so wonderful because around the bedroom, my pet name for Megan’s vagina has always been Robert Redford’s face. And we wrote this whole song about how I can’t wait to, like, rest my balls on Robert Redford’s face. Bob, unfortunately, wasn’t there that night, and, he and I didn’t want to work together afterwards. And thankfully nobody, I think, has shared that with him. But we both grew up, like admiring and aspiring to like, the Carol Burnett Show, I’d say, is one of the most powerful comedy resources for Megan. It’s kind of obvious, with her skill set for me, the movies of Mel Brooks and the crossover of, like, Harvey Korman and Tim Conway and, like, doing shit with a straight face. What, while you had people in stitches? That was one of the appealing, inciting cultural moments for me. So that is something that we both really love. We have that in our in our toolboxes and would love to host more such shows. And with Megan, you also have a Broadway star who can, you know, throw in a few musical numbers as well if you’ve got it in the house.


Louis Virtel Speaking of people who often have great deadpan delivery on making it, you obviously work with Amy Poehler. Apart from Amy Poehler for years on Parks and Recreation, can you explain the difference between the two dynamics between when you’re doing scripted stuff together and unscripted stuff? And, is it fun to, play with that?


Nick Offerman Well, it’s it’s such a lucky, shotgun seat that I landed in, in the times that I’ve gotten to be sort of in that kind of partnership with Amy, I had to audition a lot. End up with the role of Ron Swanson, and the final audition was them taping an improvised scene between the two of us. And I’m a slow talking and untrained improviser. I do enjoy improvising, but I’m not nimble. I don’t have the facility that these UCB performers have from the Upright Citizens Brigade, a theater coincidentally founded by Amy. And so in this audition, I sat there while this comedy dynamo spun up and shot off a bunch of fireworks and sparks and banana peels and hilarity. And then I gave a slight pause and said, like, one pithy thing. And they said, you’re. It’s amazing. You’re perfectly complimentary. And I was like, oh, great, just keep your mouth shut and raise an eyebrow or like, slowly shut the door or whatever. And so even when you’re doing scripted, material with Amy, there’s this electricity hanging in the air because she can take it or leave it. She can deliver the script, sharply. But at any moment, she could also completely win the day with with a unexpected improvised moment. Coincidentally, it’s like that with Megan as well, being the lucky, supernumerary that gets to stand next to them has that element of just staying as as alert as I can in the hopes that I can contribute, and be asked to come back again tomorrow.


Ira Madison III You said something that, really sort of pinpoints what I think about your early career, as an actor, what you talked about being sort of this deadpan person who lets this comedy happen around you? Really? Before Parks and Recreation, you were known for just so many sort of smaller roles in so many bigger, like, Hollywood films. And I’m just wondering, were there any sort of moments on set, in any of those films? I’m thinking particularly, you know, like, you opposite Sandra Bullock in reality two or like, you had 21 Jump Street, with Channing Tatum and Jonah Hill. Were there any people that you were really sort of, had a great time just sort of acting opposite their, comedy while you were doing your own thing to sort of react to it.


Nick Offerman Sure. I mean, it’s it’s a very generous estimation to say that I was known, for these things, because, before Parks and Rec, like, blew my world open, I was aspiring to a career of dependable character work. The likes of, like, Emmet Walsh or John Carroll Lynch. These thespians who, whenever you see them, you almost never know their names, but they’re in everything. And when you see them, you’re like, oh, this is going to be good because they, have such a high batting average. So that was what I was hoping to aspire to. And I mean, it was. It was crazy. I had this eight episode arc on the George Lopez sitcom, like 20 years ago. And Sandra Bullock, surprisingly, was an executive producer of that show. She loved George’s stand up and helped create the sitcom. And so from being around that, I ended up, being cast as one of the two, main bad guy brothers and Miss Congeniality two armed and fabulous, the 21 Jump Street thing that came, after Parks and Rec had begun. And so I was able to bring more personality to that. And it’s interesting, like once you break through the ceiling of becoming, known entity, then you’re being cast. And so. So Lord and Miller put me in those movies because of what I brought with me from Parks and Rec. So when Channing and Jonah sit down across from me, the audience has some idea of what this deadpan police captain is about. I did an episode of Will and Grace, early on with with Megan getting to work with, you know, champions like Sandra Oh or Meghan. Usually was was just an incredible learning experience. And if I tried to insert a little more personality, I’m pretty sure they would have told me to take it down a notch. In fact, I probably did try to be like, hey guys, I’ve also got some pizzazz to offer to the world of showbiz. And they’re like, okay, plumber with four lines. Just fucking knock on the door. And let the star of the show slap you and then get the fuck out. You know, my career has been a very slowly rolling snowball. Like, I got my SAG card when I was 23. I got Ron Swanson when I was 38. I’m now 53. And so in the early aughts, things were starting to go a little better, a little better. You know, I got cast in this movie called The Men Who Stare at Goats, which is a great little comedy based off a wonderful Jon Ronson book. And I got an audition for this movie, and all we knew was that George Clooney was producing it, and he and I had had a nice rapport on an episode, a live episode of air that I had done in like 98. And, and Meghan was making the audition was for a one line role. And I was like, I really feel like I should draw a lot, draw a line here and stop going in for one liners like, you know, if I elevate myself, then maybe they’ll see me in that way. And Meghan was like, well, George really liked you on the blah blah blah. And I and I, I always listen to her advice. So I went into this audition. It was a long casting hallway of all these other jerks that I have known for 12 years, all the other one liners and like guys that I would see at beer commercials or whatever, and I and the bit was it was a scene about, it’s a true story about psychic soldiers. Our armed forces were legitimately in the 80s trying to develop a platoon of psychic soldiers because they heard that Russia had some psychic soldiers. And this this really happened. It’s a great book by Jon Ronson. So. So the scene was for the supporting private to come in at, like, the audition of the psychic soldiers and look at a box on a table, and he’s supposed to say, what’s in the box? And so it’s one line, and I forget. I forget what the line was, you know, it was like, is it, you know, is it read or something? So my bit was I wore a pair of glasses to the audition and she’s like, okay, go ahead. We’re taping, you know, okay. Whenever you’re ready. And so I look I sort of squint, looking at the box, and then I take my glasses off and, like, slightly crossed my eyes. And then I say the line as though I have to take my glasses off to get the proper focus to use my psychic powers. It’s a very small piece of, you know, a drop of hot sauce, but like, that was my choice. I was like, here’s, here’s what I’m going to do. And the casting director said, can we let’s go again? But can you not do the thing with your glasses? And I was like, no, I mean, I’m. I’m incredibly nice and a people pleaser. So I said, you know what? No thank you. Like, I don’t want to give you the option of me with like, what the fuck are we doing here? Like. It’s one line. It was such a little crazy little thing. And I was like, whatever. This was such a waste, and I left. Three months later, we were on vacation and Calistoga, Northern California, and I get a call from my agent. You got the job. They need you in Puerto Rico tomorrow night. And I’m like. Okay. Crazy. And it’s. And this is pre Parks and rec. So whatever the deal was, it was like, you know, five weeks of work. It was a it was a wonderful little windfall. I fly to Puerto Rico I mean it’s it’s it’s kind of, a whirlwind. I land, they pick me up, they, you know, I don’t know, I don’t know whatever happened if somebody dropped out or. But everything was incredibly last minute. So I went from the airport straight to the hair and makeup trailer on set. They stick some sideburns on me, they take me in to the set, and my scene is with it’s me, Jeff Bridges, Clooney and Kevin Spacey. It’s the four of us, and I’m this unknown jerk and I do it. I literally do the exact bit, the glasses that are and like, that’s the scene, the scene that we started with. And so there are things like that that are so incredibly educational where I got to be and I had a few more scenes with all of these guys. We shot a bunch of it also in Roswell, New Mexico. And so even though I wasn’t yet being offered the opportunity to, like, bring my full jazz, I was still getting to play fourth trumpet in this particular swing band and and watch Louis Armstrong sitting first chair and be like, okay, I see what do watching Jeff Bridges do a speech over and over again and, and and just feel like, okay, someday if I ever get to do that speech, I will take these lessons with me. So it’s, you know, sorry. That’s an incredibly long winded answer, but, the until it’s an interesting thing that I hadn’t really thought about until this question that until you sort of are welcomed by the world, to, to bring your particular hot sauce, they’re like, no, no, no, no, you’re, you are one of the beans in this burrito. So please don’t don’t, don’t we don’t need your flavor just yet.


Louis Virtel You’ve spun a number of wonderful metaphors. I just want to say I’m cherishing them all.


Nick Offerman Well, I it’s usually going to be food or baseball, or woodworking. But but but but that makes it so then once you get something like Parks and Rec and the world says, Holy shit, what is in this sauce? We like it. You’re like, oh, thank goodness I’ve been fermenting this. My my gravy, for all these years. And finally, you want you want it on your potatoes.


Louis Virtel Well, thank you so much for being here. It’s been fabulous interviewing you. And I must say, before you go that in that Last of Us episode, you are now the world’s leading, as far as I’m concerned. Linda Ronstadt propagandists. Our tribe has needed you for years and years. And finally, the world is out there being, like, long, long time. What is this? Maybe I’ll check out the rest of her catalog. Oh thank God.


Nick Offerman Can you believe I’m so grateful. Thank you. The. For so many things. In one episode of a new HBO series, Craig Mazin, with, you know, with the foundational world of Neil Druckmann, who created the game and co-created the show with Craig, I am just the luckiest shoveler to have been chosen as the vessel for their incredible genius and that of Linda Ronstadt and everybody else. This has been really edifying, and I’ve really appreciated your intelligent questions in, one third of the time that it takes most podcasts to get half that information.


Louis Virtel Mathematically, we get the most out of it. Yes. We love to bring that quality to this.


Nick Offerman Absolutely.


Ira Madison III Thank you so much.


Nick Offerman My pleasure. Thank you.




Ira Madison III Just when we were getting a break from the Keep It obituaries, which is going to be our spin off podcast at this point. O.J. Simpson died last Thursday.


Louis Virtel Talk about a legacy.


Ira Madison III Yeah. You know. I haven’t worn gloves. The same sets up that trial and.


Louis Virtel And they’re so fetching on you too. So I’m sorry to hear that.


Ira Madison III Thank you. And my gloves always fit, unfortunately. So I’m never acquitted.


Louis Virtel You’ve learned nothing. Yeah. Do you know what I learned on Twitter the other day from screenwriter Zach Stents, who’s one of my favorite people? The following. He said the most random bit of trivia that I remember from the OJ Simpson case is that one of his biggest fights with Nicole Brown began when she told him he shouldn’t do any more Naked Gun movies, because they were hurting his chances of winning an Oscar in the future. Was she killed because she spilled? He was not going to get an Oscar at that, right?


Ira Madison III That is a segment in a game show for sure. Was she killed because she spilled?


Louis Virtel I’m sorry to do that to everybody. It’s a horrible case. It’s a it’s it’s a horrible period in American history. The one thing I will say about the OJ Simpson case before we talk about other tabloid cases that we remember and actually, I don’t know, cherish, it was endless. Like, you could, like, you could turn on the TV at any time and half of your favorite shows could be interrupted because something some development in the OJ trial occurred. That was the beginning of You Can’t Escape a Story. I’m trying to think of other things that have been like that, like the Amy Fisher story before that was shockingly huge. Like shockingly huge enough that Madonna, while being an, a musical guest on SNL, made reference to it. First of all, mocking Shinade O’Connor holding up a picture of the Pope, but she held up a picture of Joey about a Philco. Imagine feeling obligated to do that. You know, like Jerrod Carmichael, the, week he hosted SNL, he had to say something about the Chris Rock slap. It was that level. But like, the Oscars are something we all watch and enjoy. That is just a weird crime in the blotter. It’s so strange.


Ira Madison III Well, the year prior also was the Loretta Bobbitt story. Yes. And that also sort of dominated the news cycle. Roy Wood Jr sort of tweeted about this. That that there’s an amazing set from Martin Lawrence about the Loretta Bobbit, sort of scandal, but it’s on a seedy stand up, seedy. So it’s not it wasn’t filmed. So, you know, it’s that’s why it hasn’t sort of recirculated, within the pop culture sphere. But, you know, people were talking about that story nonstop as well.


Louis Virtel And thinking about what the greatest tabloid story of all time is. Of course, Tonya Harding and Nancy Kerrigan come to mind just because of the sheer lunacy of could really Tonya Harding and like her, I was going to say goons, but I’ll say go loonies, conspire to like, destroy another athlete’s career in order to secure this weird win. But even so, like, there is like a violent act there. It’s just not comfortable to think about. I didn’t love I, Tonya, spin on it like there’s no new angle on this. I believe she was part of the the violent act. Tonya Harding anyway, I’m sorry to say that when the Gwyneth Paltrow ski trial happened, I did not cherish it for what it was, which is. The loveliest tabloid story of all time. You know, something weird happened on a vacation. Nobody was terribly injured. He claims he was injured, but, like, that was dubious or whatever. And then you got three killer personality moments out of Gwyneth. And I’m not saying she’s not dubious in other ways, but literally saying be well to somebody as she exits a courtroom. I mean, you can hear in that statement the sweater she is wearing, you can heat, you feel the Gwyneth skin care. Everything about her personality came out in that trial. And I think unfortunately made me even a bigger fan. And as you know, all I do on this podcast is beg for her to come back to movies. Sorry, movies. I want to say.


Ira Madison III Yeah, the sweaters, the fashion. There is something, too, about how the, celebrity Vacation of crime has sort of contributed to this. I mean, I just saw, Chicago again recently because my friend Ariana Madix from Vanderpump Rules was in it. She was fantastic, by the way. I saw the final performance, and you could see that she had really gotten very comfortable with that role, in becoming Roxie Hart. But the whole Roxie Hart, Velma Kelly of it, you know, every type of celebrity is on trial for anything, particularly women. There’s it’s sort of a runway as they’re going to the courthouse, you know, there there’s a fashion, there’s the photographers. It is. It just becomes a bit of a bonanza. So it was nice that with Gwyneth there wasn’t really anything sort of like someone was murdered. Yeah. Or anything else. It was. This is just silly.


Louis Virtel And she also literally said, well, I lost a few hours of skiing that day. I mean, that’s the victim, you know what I mean? How? Yeah. You know, Hilaria Baldwin is sort of a similar situation where it’s just victimless and it is not literally a trial, of course, but it’s literally wondering. This woman just making up a whole personality and origin story, even though she’s just somebody who seemingly teaches yoga and has 777 kids.


Ira Madison III Victim less. Listen, they didn’t see her on that set, but I know they both reached for the gun.


Louis Virtel Okay. That can’t. That doesn’t sound right. I’m the one with a journalism degree here, and I, you know.


Ira Madison III I want to go back to OJ for a second, because one of the funniest ways to find out that, a celebrity has died is when someone tweets about their death. And I discovered that I was flying to Coachella, and when I landed at LAX. I opened my phone and there are texts in the group chat. After someone had censored Caitlyn Jenner’s tweet, it said good riddance.


Louis Virtel The voice of reason, as always.


Ira Madison III And their responses to Caitlyn Jenner were fantastic. Many people reminding her that she has the same body count. Oh, Jack. Come on. Many people providing her. We’d like to see you there, too.


Louis Virtel Good Lord. Oh my God, the internet is already horrid.


Ira Madison III It’s just you can’t also be a horrible person and then publicly celebrate the death of a horrible person without knowing that people will also be like, wait a second, bitch, right?


Louis Virtel They are definitely both in the pantheon of utterly famous and no fans. So that’s exciting that there’s at least two in that group and they hate each other, I guess.


Ira Madison III Yeah. You know, former athletes turned demons.


Louis Virtel Yes. Turned demons


Ira Madison III Demons are the naked gun. Movies are worse. Tarnish on your acting career than that, Village People movie that Caitlin was in.


Louis Virtel Wow. These should be compared. I would love to see someone get a PhD because of this dissertation. Let me see. Can’t stop the music, is what Ira is talking about. It is a movie starring the Village People. It is directed by Nancy Walker. A who, it was known at the time for playing Valerie Harper’s mother on the show, Rhoda. Steve Guttenberg is also in this movie, and it is basically a roller skating fiasco of a disco movie. It came out at the time of movies like Thank God It’s Friday or Fame or movies like that. And it is so insanely bad. I mean, like, it’s just, again, the Village People didn’t really have speaking voices before this, and we decided they were going to be people we knew and loved during this movie. And frankly, we were wrong. And I’m just going to say there were a lot of drugs going on in the late 70s, so maybe that informed this decision.


Ira Madison III Speaking of your sort of athletes started to cry, but you’re bringing up the Tonya Harding thing. The thing that’s shocking about the Tonya Harding story to me is actually that this. Has it happened more often.


Louis Virtel Right? Yes. That you’re right, that people would sort of conspire to work against somebody else who seems unstoppable.


Ira Madison III Yeah. Particularly in the world of sports. Right. There’s obviously that story about the mother of the cheerleader, who hired that hit man that time. It’s referenced in Bring It On as well. But, you know, it seems like something that would sort of inspire people to get up, try to take out their rivals.


Louis Virtel And also, I will say about the Tonya Harding thing, if we didn’t have that story, we wouldn’t have Nancy Kerrigan and that Disney Parade mouthing under her breath, this is so stupid, or this is so boring, or this is so corny again and again. And I love seeing a crowned American princess just hate what is happening around her. And then she hosted SNL and she made the joke. I wasn’t saying it’s so corny. I was saying it’s so horny, which is a hilarious and strange joke. I can’t believe she said that.


Ira Madison III I love that idea. Yeah.


Louis Virtel We need another round of that on VH1. Again, the kids don’t know shit. So you and I, I think, need to get into, like a booth and Van Nuys, put a camera in front of us and just ask me about things like, you know, Pokémon and Mighty Morphin Power Rangers and let us go off.


Ira Madison III Well, I think that’s all we need to say about OJ Simpson. Yeah. You know.


Louis Virtel God love the girl.


Ira Madison III The juice. I’m still drinking it, and.


Louis Virtel I have nothing to say to that. Sorry. I’m exasperated with what you just said.


Ira Madison III Someone left the juice out in the red. Okay. Oh.


Louis Virtel I would love to have seen a disco moment from him.


Ira Madison III All right, well, we are back. It is time for keep it. And we are back with our favorite segment of the episode. It is. Keep it. Louis. Yes. What do you say? Keep it to this week.


Louis Virtel Well, you know, I’m a fan of really good interviews and people who can’t help but give good interviews. We’ve had Chloe Sevigny had a wonderful run recently. You know, Fran Lebowitz usually is good for a quote or two. Unfortunately, Azealia Banks has opinions every once in a while that will make me laugh before. You know, a shiver runs down my spine, as it should. But the queen of this once upon a time was Courtney Love, who seemingly you could not get off the phone with spin magazine. Once upon a time you would turn around, you would try to leave the room, and almost as a scare quote from blender magazine from Courtney Love, talking about how Alanis Morissette is artificial at every level would greet you. Anyway, she’s finally back in a really brief interview with the Guardian, I believe, and she was asked her opinion on several different artists. She said something somewhat snotty about Taylor Swift, saying that her music is an important, but she’s probably the Madonna of right now in terms of the scale of who she is. She talked about how she hasn’t, like Lana Del Rey since she released a cover of Take Me Home Country Roads by John Denver. Okay, that’s really funny. That is so funny that you just turn on an artist after that, after one bad decision. And she also said, regarding PJ Harvey, who I’m wearing a shirt of today, she said just the first four albums that I’m done like she is, I miss the bitchiness of quotes that you could be like, yeah, I’m kind of a fan of them. Not all the time, you know? And just we love that, you know? I think it’s because once upon a time you didn’t have Twitter with these quotes would come back to haunt you again and again and again. They would just live in a blurb in a magazine. And so they kind of, I think people kept them in perspective. It’s just something someone said one time that would become outdated after a while, or, you know, we would move on from that issue of that magazine and maybe they would change, or maybe they wouldn’t. My keep it is to people online who are saying, this woman wants attention. If you don’t understand how Courtney Love works, you pick up the phone with her, you say hello, and she immediately just starts talking and giving every opinion she’s ever had and telling you things about Kurt Cobain you didn’t even want to know. I’m telling you, they didn’t even ask her. She just went on about it. So I’m saying, like, even though during her famous, interjection when she interrupted Madonna being interviewed at the 1995 VMAs through a compact, her from the red carpet ran up to the interview and sat with her during this uncomfortable tete a tete with Kurt Loder and Madonna, where Madonna was actually sliced and diced or with some wit. Even though Madonna said in that moment, Courtney Love is in dire need of attention right now, I truly think what Courtney is about is not attention. I think she is just so unfazed with how horrible fame is. And thanks to herself, I can just be honest because who cares? Like she’s done not being impressive to people though, she’s had some of the worst, meanest insults ever hurled at her at a celebrity. I think like the way people treated her in the wake of her husband’s death is just bone chilling to this day, I think. And I’m not saying I admire every opinion she has or agree with every opinion she has. I loved the interview.


Ira Madison III I mean, I am such a fan of that Courtney Love and Madonna moment.


Louis Virtel Oh so good. Madonna looks amazing, by the way.


Ira Madison III Yeah, it’s it’s something we need more of. We really don’t have instances where an insane celebrity, could just sort of harass another one.


Louis Virtel Well, it’s I mean, it’s crazy. It seems it’s a very unlikely moment as it happens, because as Courtney Love throws her compact at Madonna, who feels it, Madonna turns around, makes the comment to Kurt Loder, saying she’s in dire need of attention right now and Kurt has the wherewithal to be like, bring her up, which is a very unusual move. Normally they would just move right along, I think. So it’s a it’s a strange and unpredictable moment. But to be honest, right now.


Ira Madison III They certainly would now a publicist would not allow. So like if someone did that to Taylor Swift, how.


Louis Virtel A hell.


Ira Madison III No paid would be true. Paid would be like, they’re not coming up here.


Louis Virtel You know what’s interesting though? In that instance, I feel like Taylor Swift could handle herself pretty well. I think we’d be exposed to, like, the darker, sardonic, humor she may have in that moment. I’m not saying I need this to happen. Taylor Swift is somebody who I think is rightfully protected. I think people are creepy about her. So, but I think she would do well.


Ira Madison III Who would throw a compact at Taylor.


Louis Virtel Oh, I love the idea though. Oh my God. Who do I think would do it? Who’s like rowdy? It’s like somebody with an Azealia Banks spirit, but it’s not Azealia Banks.


Ira Madison III Doja chaperoned Baby Chat Bar because Jones was just like sort of like big bothered herself. Yeah I don’t see her bothering anybody else.


Louis Virtel All I’m saying is we saw that video last week of chaperon watching Jojo. She was music video and she was openly shady. So I’m going to take that iota of a moment and apply it here.


Ira Madison III By the way, Jojo Siwa sort of packed a Miami Beach Pride concert this past weekend, so maybe people are tuning in to her rebrand, at least out of morbid curiosity, right?


Louis Virtel Well, again, she’s dressed like a Power Rangers villain, which people of a certain age have an affinity for. You know? See what? Repulsive as it were.


Ira Madison III As long as someone’s got to fight the party patrol, right? It’s got to be her.


Louis Virtel I love how they said the party is after the Rangers all the time. And they were not good one time. Maybe we need it. We need another committee.


Ira Madison III Even when they updated the party patrol, they somehow made them easier to beat. Do you remember they first just used to be these, gray blobs. It suits who were fighting the Power Rangers. And then once Lord Zedd became one of the main villains in Power Rangers, the party is got these sort of like, circle symbols on their chest that you basically just had to hit to kill them.


Louis Virtel Which don’t don’t show your death symbols if you’re going to get into a fight, but cover those up, put on a bomber jacket or anything. IRA, what is your keep at this wig?


Ira Madison III My keep it today is twofold. Oh one I’m going to talk about Panera Bread. Please do I love Panera Bread okay I have found by people in New York City and these are people who love Panera okay. It is perfect fast casual food because you know there’s no drive thrus. There’s just you you go ahead. You order your food, you sit down, there’s community there. Get out.


Louis Virtel You enter a Panera and your life immediately slows down. You like simmer to the temperature and speed. Of a Panera.


Ira Madison III Plus in Milwaukee. In high school. What? I used to work at Barnes and Noble at Mayfair Mall. My Panera card got a workout because that’s where I had lunch every day.


Louis Virtel I once upon a time, Panera was not getting my favorite food. When I went to University of Iowa, my girlfriend Lauren Nyberg, and I would scam our way to Coralville, which was too far and we didn’t have a car because we wanted to go to Panera so bad. This was my life. Yes.


Ira Madison III Yeah, I think I sort of transitioned to Panera for my high school obsession with Noodle and Company. I was I used to go to Evanston all the time to get, when I was at Loyola Chicago because we did not have one in Chicago proper. But as soon as you got to the suburbs.


Louis Virtel The lives of deprivation, we left. Okay. Yes. So what’s up with Panera?


Ira Madison III Panera one someone tweeted that Panera isn’t tasty is the ultimate white people food. And all the people that I know that love Panera are black. First of all, okay. White person tweeted this too. And I’m sick of white on white crime as a joke. Okay, I’m sick of I’m going to say this is white people like this. If you are white tweeting this. Enough of that. Yeah, okay.


Louis Virtel It reminds me of do stuff white people like that whole phenomenon once upon a time. And I was like, white people joking with each other. Oh, yeah, we do love the idea of soccer, but none of us really know about soccer. It got a little smug in like ten minutes.


Ira Madison III Yeah, white people love tried to look like they’re above being white.


Louis Virtel Yes yes yes yes. And you can’t transcend that. Trust me, I’ve tried.


Ira Madison III And you’re not. You are in that white scared? Yeah. I was trying to like what happened to baby Jesus.


Louis Virtel Oh, I know, oh I know, yes, yes. Starring maybe the white House performance.


Ira Madison III I mean, Chapel Road’s inspiration.


Louis Virtel Yes. No, definitely. Yes.


Ira Madison III But White Face in that movie is definitely her inspiration. But the other thing I would like to say about Panera Bread is that they have recently started taking items from their menu. Oh no. And I hate. What a chain that you have been going to for decades, all of a sudden decides, you know what? What if we just phased out several menu items? It happens all the fucking time.


Louis Virtel It’s sad because the whole point is it’s a constancy. You know what I mean? Like, some things are never changing. You know, Vanna White is always on Wheel of Fortune. Legally, she cannot leave. I need her literally embalmed at the board.


Ira Madison III Okay. It’s the same thing as, you know, a McDonald’s where they would take some things away. You know, bring back those wraps. Yeah.


Louis Virtel Panera. All. Yeah. All the food is so good to for any of it to go away. I need a half sandwich. I need to have soup. And also, for a shame, the bread is soaked.


Ira Madison III The bread is really fucking good. Then is the bread maybe a bit too expensive? Am I paying $25 for half of a sandwich and a soup, maybe.


Louis Virtel Yeah, well, luxury is a great time. Sorry. It makes it. It makes it more fun to me.


Ira Madison III You know? But I’ll never quit Panera because it is ten minutes away on DoorDash from my apartment. And there is really just something I underestimated about when you get home late, from somewhere. And, you know, this food can arrive in ten minutes. If it’s not arriving in 10 to 20 minutes, I’m actually not going to eat right.


Louis Virtel Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it’s you’re saying it’s your best friend. Yeah.


Ira Madison III Yeah, but where’s my best friend?


Louis Virtel So no, I haven’t thought about Panera in a long time I so I mean basically if I were in high school and I had the guts to ask a girl out on a date, we would end up at a Panera.


Ira Madison III Of course, you haven’t been thinking about Panera because it’s not food for white people.


Louis Virtel Yeah, I, I feel guilty now.


Ira Madison III And there is a sister. Okay. Pronounce Panera. Actually.


Louis Virtel You’re in the Panera Tam. Coachella.


Ira Madison III I’m sure I’m all right. This has been our episode. I’ll be back in New York next week like a normal person, and hopefully all of the dust will be out of my sinuses.


Louis Virtel But I do like a little gravel. Give me a little Kathleen Turner every week. Ain’t nothing wrong with that.


Ira Madison III Yeah. Thank you to Nick Offerman for joining us. Fantastic guest. And we will see you next week. Great. Don’t forget to follow Crooked Media on Instagram, Twitter, and TikTok. You can also subscribe to keep it on YouTube for access to full episodes and other exclusive content. And if you’re as opinionated as we are, consider dropping us a review.


Louis Virtel Keep it is a Crooked Media production. Our producers are Chris Lord and C.J. “Seige” Hulkinghorne. Our executive producers are Ira Madison, the Third, Louis Virtel, and Kendra James. Our digital team is Megan Patsel, Claudia Shang, and Rachel Gaieski. This episode was recorded and mixed by Evan Sutton. Thank you to Matt DeGroot, David Toles, Kyle Seglin, and Charlotte Landes for production support every week.