In This Episode
Death row inmate receives life-saving subpoena, member of the school-integrating Little Rock Nine passes at 83, and Black US surfers reclaim the waters. DeRay interviews Ohio Congresswoman Emilia Sykes about her ongoing advocacy around issues related to Black maternal health, domestic violence, abortion, and more.
News
Robert Roberson set to testify before Texas lawmakers days after they saved him from execution
‘The ocean doesn’t care what color I am’: Black US surfers reclaim the waters
Thelma Mothershed Wair, of the School-Integrating Little Rock Nine, Dies at 83
Follow @PodSaveThePeople on Instagram.
TRANSCRIPT
[AD BREAK]
DeRay Mckesson: And welcome to Pod Save the People, in this episode, it’s me, Kaya, and Don talking about the news that you don’t know from the past week, the news with regard to race, justice, and equity, and obviously the election, which is exactly 14 days away. And then I sit down and talk to Ohio Representative Emilia Sykes to talk about her congressional initiatives. She is amazing. You’ll learn about her too. Let’s go. Everybody welcome back to another episode of Pod Save the People. We’re getting close to Election Day. This is DeRay at @deray on Twitter.
Kaya Henderson: I’m Kaya Henderson at @HendersonKaya on Twitter, X, whatever you want to call it.
Don Calloway: I’m Don Calloway at @DCalloway, O-W-A-Y on Instagram.
DeRay Mckesson: Y’all, it is. We’re down to the wire. With this election, I feel like so much has happened since last week. Kamala in church. Did y’all see that Key and Peele moment she had as she goes down the line and hugs all the Black women? And then there’s the that white woman right there who doesn’t know, doesn’t quite know what to do. Which was really funny. Uh the Break– uh Charlemagne’s interview. Um. What else was she? She did Sharpton. There’s a lot that’s been happening with the election. So I wanted to just start with the pulse check. Oh. We can’t forget Trump and the fake McDonald’s. Arnold Palmer. It’s a lot going on. So, Don, what say you in election land?
Don Calloway: Yeah, Yeah. I think we have to remember that what we’re seeing are the last throes of an entertainer entertaining. We are not seeing–
Kaya Henderson: Yes.
Don Calloway: -a political serious political person with real ideas about how to run the country. Perhaps it’s a sick sad commentary how such an individual could have gotten this far. Where one of two of our countrymen are probably going to vote for him to lead us all. But I think we have to just almost divest ourselves of the theatrics and the show because this is literally his last act on Earth. Right. Perhaps he has some wills and assets to get together, you know, in the in the overtime period for him. But this is literally his last act as a public figure. And in 16 days or 14 days, I think it is, you know, we should be prepared to summarily dismiss this person from the public sphere because he’s had his time and it’s over. But this is not a serious person who has real ideas about how to run a country. And if we contextualize it properly in that way, commit ourselves to knock on a few more doors and making a few more calls. I really do think that Kamala Harris wraps it up and then we can have a longer discussion down the road about how did we get here. But this is the time to lock in and send his ass home for good.
Kaya Henderson: Okay, Don, first of all, I love you because you’re so, like, measured and mature and thoughtful. Can we play in the entertainment space before we get to, like, the what’s good for the country?
Don Calloway: We can. We can.
Kaya Henderson: Because I was away I was out of the country this week in a country that doesn’t speak English. And so, you know, you only get like three channels. And there was so much coverage of um the Middle East and them taking down the head of Hamas, um the architect of the the October attacks. And so I got a steady dose of foreign commentary and missed all of the entertainment. But I came back to, you know, this man saying that she’s a S-H-I-T vice president, something about Arnold Palmer’s privates.
[clip of Donald Trump] Oh man. This man who was strong and tough. And I refuse to say it. But when he took showers with the other pros, they came out of there. They said, oh my God. That’s unbelievable. [laugh] I had to say it. I had to say. We have women that are highly sophisticated here, but they used to look at [?].
Kaya Henderson: Craziness. How how are we like, what is going on right now? Like, I actually feel like this man is descending into, like, sheer madness. And people like, I, like people are wildly entertained by this. What is that about?
Don Calloway: Well, I think that, you know, if you were to ask one of his supporters, the craziness kind of undergirds this notion of authenticity. But–
Kaya Henderson: Yeah, yeah.
Don Calloway: Yeah. Electorally–
Kaya Henderson: Authentically crazy, though. Authentically–
Don Calloway: Yeah.
Kaya Henderson: –crazy.
Don Calloway: Yeah, I think I mean and and you know, if you had to ask them in their heart of hearts, what is his plan to make their life better? I don’t know that they could tell you other than continuing to oppress marginalized groups who are encroaching upon their their cis het whiteness dominance in this country. But the reality is that I think that there are still and we should never forget. I mean, the three of us and most of our listeners are probably deeply committed to the notion that they’re going to vote for Kamala Harris. Not that they love her, but they are we are going to vote for Kamala Harris, and that’s what it’s going to be. We have to remember that there are millions and millions of undecided voters in this country, and not all of them are toothless rednecks. A lot of them are thoughtful, conscientious people. And he is failing the stretch run of an interview that requires some level of seriousness um for a whole lot of people who are still undecided. The question is how many of those people are located in the seven swing states that matter at this juncture of the election. But I’m here in St. Louis, as you can see from the Blackest background of all time. Um. [laughter] In my mama’s living room.
Kaya Henderson: Artificial flowers and all.
Don Calloway: Yes. Yes indeed.
Kaya Henderson: Ah yes.
DeRay Mckesson: And the china cabinet.
Kaya Henderson: I love it. I love it. I love it.
DeRay Mckesson: We all had a china cabinet growing up.
Don Calloway: Oh you see it. You see that you see the Obama–
Kaya Henderson: Uh huh.
Don Calloway: With the pastors. Um.
DeRay Mckesson: That’s that good china cabinet.
Don Calloway: Look. I mean, there are people here in Missouri, here in places like Iowa, who are not willing to concede that they won’t have a say as well. So I’m seeing a lot of specific signs that, say Missourians for Kamala or Iowans for Kamala. Um. And and I’m seeing energy in Alabama. You know, people are going to come out uh Georgia. We’re not ready to concede. And so I just really think that even folks who aren’t waving Kamala flags are ready to move past the crazy, you know, and just put that to bed. So I do have some level of optimism, but a lot of that is rooted in the fact that I think that people are going to get out and work hard for two more weeks here.
DeRay Mckesson: Yeah, I do think, too, you know, it has been it goes without saying that if Kamala did any of this foolishness, it would be game over. So like that goes without saying.
Don Calloway: Yes.
DeRay Mckesson: But it’s been really interesting to watch the people whose identity is rooted in being geniuses. I think about the way the tech community has rallied around Trump. That is like their whole thing is like, we’re smart and we’re da da da. And you’re like, you all know that this man is unhinged and you still support him. And that’s how when people are like, well what does white supremacy look like? Or what does da da? I’m like, y’all there’s no better case study than this because you can’t argue meritocracy, you can’t argue better political position. There’s like, you can’t do any of that, you know, and like that is. That’s really a wild thing.
Kaya Henderson: All you can argue is preservation of power, right? So the Republican friends that I have, who some are never Trumpers and some are they hold their nose, but they go in the ballot box and they and they vote for him because he will allow them to continue to do whatever they want to do. And that is what it ultimately boils down to. This is about preservation of a particular kind of power, as Don laid out for us. Um. But my worry is not about the undecided voters. Now my worry is about the people who are choosing not to vote at all. And I continue to hear from young people. I mean, I where did [?]. I grew up you know, with the steady diet of people died for me to vote. My mama took me into the ballot box with her. She would she would never show me who she was voting for because she was like, that’s a personal choice and you get to choose whoever you want to vote for. But I walked into the you know, it was old school. You walked into the booth, you pulled the curtains, you clicked down the little things that you have you all ever seen these kind of voting machines. Y’all might be too young for this, but– [laughter]
Don Calloway: No, no, I’m not. Yes, yes, indeed.
Kaya Henderson: I was I was brought up with this sacred obligation to vote. Right. And have never not voted. And these young people literally believe that their their vote doesn’t count, that they’re expressing their voice is to not vote. Um. And it’s not just young people. There are there are lots of older people who also feel like neither of these candidates is who they want. And so they are not going to vote. And what is what is the message to them at this particular moment? How how are they? I mean, my question is, how are they even processing the absurdity on the Republican side and the like just steadiness, just I mean, you don’t you don’t have to like her. But at the end of the day, when we think about what we want this country to be, the level of political engagement necessary to get things done and we need to get things done right, like how are people processing that they should stay home and not vote?
Don Calloway: Well, I think that we have to remember that in times like these, there have always been times like these. So the highest the highest turnout from voting eligible population in the history of this country was in 2020, not 2008 for uh–
Kaya Henderson: Huh.
Don Calloway: For Barry, but it was in 2020 and we got 62%. Barack Obama got 57%. And those represent the two highest turnouts of all time. So that means there’s always been 40% of us who don’t vote, right, always. Right. So we could talk a lot about undecideds and the couches on the ballot. And that’s true. But it’s important to remember that the three of us have always been in the 60% and don’t know no other way. Right. And but there’s always been that 40% um who are simply consumed with the day to day lives. And, you know, some of them because uh variety of reason. But that 40% has always been there. And I think that us and the Pod Save community and frankly, probably the people that you surround yourselves with every day are squarely in that 60% and have been for our whole lives. So I we have to think about how much time we actually spend relating to the 40% to understand why they don’t vote, which is why I have no I have no no corner for Barack Obama coming in lecturing me and my world because I’m sure he doesn’t spend time with the 40%, you know.
Kaya Henderson: Woop woop.
Don Calloway: Black men or otherwise.
Kaya Henderson: Wait a minute. Look at you getting at my president, say more. [laughter]
Don Calloway: I, you know, listen. I love the guy.
Kaya Henderson: Was it a lecture? Was it a lecture?
Don Calloway: I love the guy. But, you know, I he is not beyond critique as a as I am–
Kaya Henderson: Fair.
Don Calloway: –not as well as much.
Kaya Henderson: Fair.
Don Calloway: –[?] with a test.
DeRay Mckesson: Y’all are hilarious. You know I will, um one of the things that I wanted to talk about with you all is uh the Elon Musk million dollar sign the petition thing, get paid to sign the petition. Kaya you don’t, did you hear about this?
Kaya Henderson: No. Don’t leave the country for a few days. You miss everything.
DeRay Mckesson: So Elon, as you know, has made a super PAC and pumping money to get people to support um, to get people to support Trump. But the newest sort of, you know, ridiculous. This is a he’s pledging to give away a million dollars a day to voters who sign the pacs petition backing the Constitution. Now there’s a legal question about whether it is a violation of the law to give people cash to sign a petition.
Kaya Henderson: Yeah. Totally.
DeRay Mckesson: That also requires a person to be registered to vote. Now, it wouldn’t be illegal. It seems like it wouldn’t be a violation of the law if they just signed a petition. But because it’s linked to voting, that is illegal. But he is rich and it doesn’t look like the DOJ is doing anything about it, it looks like he just is able to get away with it. And that feels sort of wild to me. And he’s like brazen. It’s not like they’re like having to sneak into rooms to figure this out. He’s like openly, publicly talking about this. And I wanted to bring that here because that I think about it because, Don, you talked about the last stand. And this also feels like another tactic of the last stand crew.
Don Calloway: Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think we have to recognize that Elon Musk is every bit as unserious as Donald Trump. He’s just extremely rich. Right. But there’s no real ideas for growing the American economy or, you know, substantive playing with the levers of democracy that have come from the mind of Elon Musk. He’s just a rich dude. And people seem to capitulate to really rich people uh time and time again. But I’m actually grateful that this election process has showed that he’s just a rich guy who kind of thinks he can do what he wants, but he’s kind of been exposed as a little bit crazy, too. Right? And so I would be happy moving along from Elon Musk. Unfortunately, a lot of people aren’t prepared to do that because he’s so rich and they think he’s going to give them you know some type of job as EVP of Negro Sales at Tesla. I don’t know. [laughter] But, you know uh you know, but so so that’s Elon Musk. There’s an interesting legal question. I remember and the Chicago fam will remember there’s a dude that’s like a perennial candidate in Chicago. And every year he, like, owns a bunch of McDonald’s or something and he is Blackity Black. And every year he gives like $100 for voting for him. And so that’s a very much unsettled legal question about whether or not that’s possible. And so I don’t even know that what Elon Musk is doing is settled and documented as not legal. What I do know is that Elon Musk is continuing to do what he and Trump do, which is prey upon the miseducation, the lack of understanding of a whole lot of people who think that they’re going to somehow find their way into his million dollars a day sweepstakes. Remember, before he was supposed to give $45 million a month to the Trump campaign? That hasn’t happened. So, again, he’s not a serious dude. He’s every bit the showman and the huckster, just a very rich huckster that uh that Donald Trump is. And I don’t want to rant on, but I’ll end on this. Let’s be clear. Elon Musk did not build Tesla. He stole it from engineers who built it. Elon Musk’s father was a diamond miner who made billions off of the backs of diamond blood slaves in South Africa. So this is not a smart person. This is just a really rich, unscrupulous and unethical person who has unethic-ed his way into being the richest person in the world. This is not somebody we should admire or even respect frankly.
Kaya Henderson: Come on Don. Um. Speaking of of legal challenges, I read an article about how these um right wing groups have put millions of dollars into America first Legal and the Public Interest Legal Foundation, which are the key progenitors of the all of the lawsuits coming out of the right. But they’ve gotten $30 million from the Bradley Impact Fund and the Lynde and Harry Bradley Foundation to start all of these lawsuits challenging the election results already. Right. And so they basically are preparing to file lawsuits saying that a number of non-citizens are voting um and they’re all of these other ways that they’re going to say that this election was not fair. And we probably have our safest and fairest elections ever in the history of the country. Um. And these people have put $30 million up ahead of time for these lawsuits that are going to try to delegitimatize the election. And I’m not sure I mean, when do you think we will actually know what the results of the election are? Given all of these legal challenges and whatnot?
Don Calloway: Yeah, I well, we didn’t know last time until Saturday. Remember Saturday morning, November 7th. Um. That was the big announcement and all the fun in D.C. um but and the election was on Tuesday. I anticipate that it will probably take up to a week, um but it certainly will not I’m I’m pretty certain that we will not have a declared winner based on projections on election night.
Kaya Henderson: Unless unless, like it is just overwhelmingly a zillion people vote for Kamala. And there’s–
Don Calloway: That’s right.
Kaya Henderson: –no way in the whole wide world I’m speaking, I’m manifesting right now. I’m speaking this–
Don Calloway: We can do it.
Kaya Henderson: –into existence because we can do this.
Don Calloway: We can do that. And that that would not be um antithetical to what I opened with, which is there’s probably some energy from people who have not been polled. I’ve never been polled in my life. I’d just like to proclaim that from the hills. Right? And I’m a 45 year old, highly active and engaged citizen. And so um I do think there’s a whole lot of people who aren’t telling their families that, look, I’m not going with the Republicans this time. There’s a lot of people just ready to move on, you know. And so I think that that that that wave absolutely could happen.
DeRay Mckesson: Last thing about the election I want to say or sort of in the midst of the election. I don’t know if you saw the Central Park Five is suing Donald Trump for defamation. That was announced this morning. And let me just read exactly, it is. They are alleging that Trump engaged in defamation and intentional infliction of emotional distress at the September 10th presidential debate in Philadelphia. I do love the arc of the Central Park five to go from.
Don Calloway: Yeah.
DeRay Mckesson: Him taking out the ad and then, you know, the movie coming out. Them being ushered back into public life and celebrated because they were obviously victims of the process and victims of people like Donald Trump so I thought that that was really powerful. Did no, did y’all see Kamala at church?
Kaya Henderson: I did not.
Don Calloway: Yes I did.
DeRay Mckesson: Did you see any of the church stuff?
Don Calloway: I did I did shout out to uh Jamal Bryant and Newbirth out there. That’s a that’s a big it’s a big show they got going down there. My homegirl Karrianna. No, no disrespect. No disrespect. Um.
Kaya Henderson: I don’t think any pastor would like his church referred to as a big show.
Don Calloway: I mean. If you. I mean but nah my homegirl Karrianna Turner uh is his intended uh and as–
Kaya Henderson: Oh yeah.
Don Calloway: I was proud to see her sitting up there next to the next president. Um. So while Kamala’s at church, it’s important to note that Donald Trump is running around doing staged events at a McDonald’s. Um. And I was watching that live yesterday on television and with my 75 year old mother who did not miss a beat and said Donald Trump is fake campaigning at a McDonald’s. And Kamala Harris actually worked at a McDonald’s. I mean, it was a great line. She dropped it you know just in stride and it was just it was fantastic. It summed up the whole thing. You have a performance versus someone who’s actually serious. And 30 years from now, perhaps we can have the discussion about, you know, this is microcosmicly on the biggest stage in the world, the story of Blackness, the story of woman-ness, of being, you know, having to suffer the indignity of even having to compete with these these these primitive individuals. It’s like a Donald Trump on every stage in human life, particularly American life. But the reality of the matter is like, this is what we’re seeing play out in real time in on the biggest stage in the world. And it’s a serious and qualified person who happens to be a Black woman versus just a fully unqualified and unprepared human. And we have to deal with this as though it’s some type of normalized environment in which it’s was just fully not.
DeRay Mckesson: I do hate too that the news didn’t the news sort of participated in the idea that he was at a real McDonald’s when it’s like–
Don Calloway: That’s right.
DeRay Mckesson: No the McDonald’s is shut down, they have prescreened the customers. But that was not the way the news did it. Could you imagine, if Kamala Harris had shut down the McDonald’s and chosen the customers? That would be the headline. Kamala Harris at fake McDonald’s. That would be the only way we talked about it. That drove me a little bonkers.
Don Calloway: And good news outlets like MSNBC, I was on MS at the time. Right. Because they they wanted to keep us a little late to cover the McDonald’s, the event. I certainly was never told that it was shut down. I mean, what about that franchise owner? Can he get like, you know, the three grand that he would have got off of like Egg McMuffins, you know, during the time? Because when you shut something down, this is a former president.
Kaya Henderson: Yes.
Don Calloway: Right? So he’s got security that comes in and does the pre.
Kaya Henderson: Advance yeah.
Don Calloway: And then there’s probably a post wipe of the space. Uh and if he shut it down there’s–
DeRay Mckesson: There were snipers on every building surrounding–
Don Calloway: Yeah.
DeRay Mckesson: –that McDonald’s.
Don Calloway: Yeah, yeah.
DeRay Mckesson: Crazy.
Don Calloway: Yeah. Trumpism literally costs people. And so you know, I wonder if that owner thought about that before he invited the circus in. But I certainly hope he gets a little check from Trump Inc for uh you know. [?]
Kaya Henderson: Chile, you know that’s not going to happen. That’s not going to happen Trump don’t have it to give at all.
Don Calloway: And I hope the Central Park gets they lick. Everybody get your lick.
Kaya Henderson: Yeah yeah.
Don Calloway: Out of Donald Trump.
Kaya Henderson: Yeah yeah.
Don Calloway: Every contractor he cheated, the Central Park five, everybody get your lick. As soon as we get this man out of public office and hopefully some type of estate person doles out the checks while he’s sitting in jail over the next five years of his life.
Kaya Henderson: Um. I feel like I have to represent for Myles a little bit and make sure that we have a little pop culture in here. Did y’all see her rally in Hotlanta with Usher and Lizzo and all of the people, chile? Um. I mean, I can’t help but think, where are the celebrities for Donald Trump besides Kid Rock or whoever else like the I am. I am inspired that celebrities are using their platform to encourage people to vote, period, um but also to really push, you know, the people who they influence towards the person who I think is the right person to lead our country. So come on, Hotlanta.
DeRay Mckesson: You know, Usher was a big deal because I don’t know if you remember his interview maybe a month ago where he said it’s not his place to tell people what to do in the election.
Kaya Henderson: Ah.
DeRay Mckesson: He’s not going to make any public comments about it. Yeah, he had a whole thing about sort of staying, just not publicly talk about it. And then he shows up at the in Georgia and that line.
Kaya Henderson: Amen.
DeRay Mckesson: Was crazy.
Kaya Henderson: Amen.
DeRay Mckesson: You know, it was like Lizzo’s speech was great. It is really cool, you know, they it’s so funny. I wanted to ask how what you all thought about J.D. Vance’s disappearance?
Don Calloway: That’s one that’s a real one for you.
DeRay Mckesson: That man is, they took that man out the game.
Don Calloway: Yes. Yes, yes. That man [?] no where.
DeRay Mckesson: I haven’t even heard, I haven’t seen a picture of him, he not in nothing.
Don Calloway: Yeah yeah nowhere.
Kaya Henderson: Wait.
Don Calloway: And he actually had as far as debates go, he actually had a decent debate. But it does appear that there’s been–
Kaya Henderson: Yes but then he but then he went ahead and said that Donald Trump that that he won the election. Right. Like he’s–
Don Calloway: Yes.
Kaya Henderson: The last thing–
Don Calloway: Yes.
Kaya Henderson: –I heard him say was they asked him for once and for all, do you think that Donald Trump won the election or did he lose the election? He said he won the election. And that I mean, well I think where most of us are past that and besides all his other comments, I think they understand how much of a liability he is. But I hope that that is a cautionary tale to all of these young, you know, political upstarts who think that they can just do anything or say anything. J.D. Vance went from Trump is Hitler to I’m his running mate. Bruh. That cannot fly. See you soon. And then you get out here and you think that you could act as crazy as Trump does. Buh bye [?], I hope we never hear from him again. Him and his non hillbilly self. According to the hillbillies who said he’s not like us like.
Don Calloway: Yes. Yes. Yes. Well, unfortunately, J.D. Vance will still be in the United States Senate, which has some some sway over our everyday lives. Um. But, you know, I hope that J.D. Vance is a um is a sign to the young white boys of the world, like, listen, don’t get on the side of crazy. Don’t sell your soul. Don’t, you know, stay on the right side of things. And I think that guys like Tim Walz and maybe if you were a little bit younger, like a guy like Andy Beshear, kind of shows that to the young white men of the world, that there is a space in the Democratic–
Kaya Henderson: There’s a place for you. Yeah.
Don Calloway: –party for you to exist and thrive. And there’s a place for you.
Kaya Henderson: Yes.
Don Calloway: Um. And and the best juxtaposition to make that case is J.D. Vance, because you can go over there and and think that, you know, the billionaire class is going to prop you up. But again, there’s enough crazy over there that you will not be able to look like a responsible adult in that room, because if you tie yourself to the devil, you’re going to have to do that dance a few times and it’s going to be done publicly, you’re not going to feel good about what that does for your career on the back end. So as we usher Donald Trump out of the public spotlight, though, I look forward to J.D. Vance being a discredited back bencher without a soul as he moves back into the Congress in January.
DeRay Mckesson: Hey, you’re listening to Pod Save the People. Stay tuned. There’s more to come.
[AD BREAK]
DeRay Mckesson: You know, recently there’s been a lot of conversations about death row. There are there’s another high profile case coming up. It is in the great state of Texas, Robert Roberson. Robert Roberson um is was scheduled to be executed for killing his child. He’s been in solitary confinement for over 20 years and he is autistic. He was convicted in 20, 2002, and it was his daughter. And he the cause of death was shaken baby syndrome. And he was convicted, sentenced to death. And the parole board in Texas denied pardoning him or commuting the sentence. The governor has said that he will not commute the sentence. It went to the Supreme Court. They did not get involved. Though Sotomayor wrote a note suggesting that the governor should intervene. And then at the 11th hour, the Texas legislature intervenes and subpoenas him. And because he is subpoenaed by the legislature, he has to appear. So it has temporarily delayed the execution. He will be coming in person instead of doing it on Zoom, it seems, because his lawyers have argued that his autism will not communicate effectively over Zoom and that they will put the client at a severe disadvantage if they can not actually see him. Now, the reason the legislature is getting involved is that Texas is the first state to ever pass what is called the junk science law. And the junk science law is a law that says that if the scientific standards change and this was passed in 2015, if the scientific standards change after the trial, then that can be used as a basis for an appeal or an intervention by the legal system. As you all probably know, uh normally you have to introduce new evidence to get an appeal and you can’t just be like, oh the expert was wrong. You have to have some like, wrongdoing or some new evidence. And this law in 2013 cleared the way for junk science to be addressed. One of the most high profile cases in Texas for this applied to before this one was about bite marks. So I don’t know if you know, but bite mark analysis is not real. It has been debunked, just like um blood splatter analysis, not real, been debunked. But the question of shaken baby syndrome is at the heart of this case in Texas. Now, shaken baby syndrome. The guy who first sort of created it in the literature, he is a doctor. His name is Guth. Guthkelch, Norman Guthkelch. He was a pediatric neurosurgeon. He wrote a big paper about it. It became a thing in 1971. And the whole premise was that there were all these babies coming to the hospital who had subdural hematomas, they were having these brain injuries, but they had no bruises on them and they were trying to figure out how could that happen. Shaken baby syndrome is the result of this. Now, since then, people there’s been a consensus in the medical community that if shaken baby syndrome is not untrue, it is at least a misdiagnosed at a rate that is problematic. So Robert Roberson’s case, a later evidence came out to show that the baby seemingly died from pneumonia and not from shaken baby syndrome. And Nathan, the professor who came up with it, he also is pushing people to not necessarily disavow it, but to say that it is being overdiagnosed. And it is a contentious topic in the medical community. Um. But the FBI says that there are about 1200 to 1400 cases of severe, of fatal trauma from child abuse, um and that 500 homicides of children under five for all causes. So I bring it here because it is interesting. We don’t have a lot of conversations about junk science. I would have never guessed that Texas would be the state that led the way on junk science, legal intervention of all places, and that a Republican legislature in Texas would be the one to intervene in this case. But I’m heartened by it. And as you know, you know, we incarcerate a ton of people. And for those people where there is just an error in the science, there should be recourse. So I wanted to bring it here because you probably have seen this as a topic. I didn’t know all the details until I was preparing for this. And I was like, oh this is actually more interesting than I think the public conversation has afforded it.
Don Calloway: Yeah, my my first thought is um and thank you for breaking down that uh the analysis of shaken baby syndrome. Um. But I think what it comes down to is that there are clear reasons to not execute this man. Even if you believe in the death penalty as a real thing. There were very clear and present reasons to to not issue the death penalty in this case and the state of Texas stayed the execution for those reasons. In my mind, I cannot uh have the discussion without contrasting it with the September 24th, not even a full month ago case of Marcellus Williams in Missouri, in which the prosecutor’s office, the um all the powers that be, the victim’s family, the prosecutor’s office who handled the case, and so many others, the Innocence Project, all said that this man should not be put to death and he was killed. He was uh the governor failed to intervene. The two United States senators, both of whom I used to call friends, Josh Hawley and Eric Schmidt, did not intervene. And the bottom line is that Robert Roberson in Texas was white and Marcellus Williams was Black. And in instances where there are both clear and facial problems too, with with the prosecution, uh with mental health and frankly, with cause of death in this case, but very clear cases of where a man should not have been executed, the white guy was spared and the Black guy was executed. So um I guess I’m glad that Texas didn’t execute Robert Roberson. I certainly think that uh the autism diagnosis over Zoom suggests that we would hope they would be brought in to be able to testify in person. But just the dignity of being able to testify, the dignity of having your execution stayed and your life spared is something that we don’t see happen um for for Black inmates, even in the most egregious of prosecutions. And so um, you know, it is still just very clear that the death penalty overall is misapplied and misapplied consistently across racial lines.
Kaya Henderson: Why is it that the the diagnosis of pneumonia is not enough new evidence to upend the case like that? I mean, before we even get to the junk science part, why not oh she was not killed by shaken baby syndrome. She died of pneumonia. Why is that not enough to get you a new trial or at least an appeal. I don’t understand.
Don Calloway: You know, a lot of times it’s it’s just about it’s not about facts and it’s not about science. It’s kind of often about the ongoing ability for the state to exert power.
Kaya Henderson: Yeah yeah.
Don Calloway: And to show that it can exert power and often to show that it can exert power over Black boys and Black men. And so they you know, this is I kind of call it what it is. This is a lynching. And a lynching has to be done in the public square. And it often has to be done just to show that we can. And that’s the only reason or logic there. But, yes, the idea that pneumonia was a was the factor should have been determinative here, you know.
DeRay Mckesson: And Kaya, just as a point, you know, in the in the legal process, if there’s new evidence, it has to meet a standard which which is different than at the court. I mean, at the trial, so at the trial, you introduce everything and have all the da da da. When things come out later, there is a process to determine whether it’s material like whether it’s relevant and important enough. Uh should it should it have been known–
Kaya Henderson: But if the cause death is not relevant, then what the fuck is relevant? Sorry, I didn’t mean to cuss. I mean.
DeRay Mckesson: Yeah yeah.
Kaya Henderson: This is why this is why there is no justice in our justice system. You convict me for shaking my baby. It is clear that I did not shake my baby. And I’m still on death row and I’m about to be executed. No, like no and no. Sorry.
DeRay Mckesson: Yeah. So it’s like material, it’s impact on trial and, you know, with the pneumonia, there has to be a doctor to come in and testify. Like they have to validate that evidence, too. So, you know, we would love for people to be able to introduce. But this is the same thing with some DNA stuff. There will be there’ll be a later thing where, you know, your fingerprint wasn’t on the thing. Or da da da and we can’t get a trial for that because they’re like, you know, the law does not allow for the intervention. It’s wild. You know, that’s why I’m shocked that Texas is a leading state in this process. Um. But yeah, I’m, crazy.
Don Calloway: So this weekend, we celebrate the transition, the ascension of Mother Thelma Mothershed-Wair, this a hyphenated last name, Mothershed dash W-A-I-R uh who passed away after a remarkable life of trailblazing. Um. But she was one of the original Little Rock Central High School integrators known as the Little Rock Nine, who in 1957 um integrated Little Rock Central High School on the orders of the federal government pursuant to 1954 desegregation orders in Brown versus Board of Education. We all know Ernest Green and those other students who so bravely integrated Little Rock Central in front of the screaming mobs and endured that. She lived not far from my hometown of St. Louis. She lived right across the river in East St. Louis and was an active citizen, churchgoer, public school teacher for the bulk of her adult life and passed this weekend in in Little Rock. So just wanted to acknowledge her passing. And she’s 83 years old, was of sound mind and and such, you know, this is in our lifetimes. You know. And we look at those pictures and they’re black and white and the footage is not HD. So we can kind of, you know, delude ourselves into believing that that was a different time and a different era. Well, it wasn’t. This is somebody who’s 83 years old. Everybody listening here knows somebody who was active and engaged at 83. And uh this was in their lifetimes that our parents and grandparents still integrated their schools. And I think you can’t disconnect that from this election coming up, is like there is one side that clearly wants to take us back to that. When Trump talks about, as he said, very clearly, defunding or excuse me, he didn’t say defund. He said eliminate, abolish the Department of Education. Well, that’s where this takes us back to, because the Department of Education has an active civil rights department that deals with K through 12 as well as higher education. And that civil rights Department is charged with making sure that federal and state resources determined for education meet out a fair education regardless of racial demographics across this country. And Trump sat there on Fox News’s flagship morning broadcast and said that it’s over with. He also said that we are going to not fund cities that teach history based upon accurate history. Right. So, um you know, as as these titans kind of pass right in front of our eyes, let them honestly let us honor their lives, but let them serve as a stark reminder of an era in which people survived something that we have the power to not go back to.
DeRay Mckesson: And just to uh to echo uh history still here. And, you know, as a kid growing up, that felt like a lifetime ago. And then the older I got, I was like, to they they was–
Kaya Henderson: That 30–
DeRay Mckesson: –[?] grandmother would have been I’m like I and she raised me. Not only–
Don Calloway: Yeah.
DeRay Mckesson: –is she still alive, but I she raised me, that woman raised me. I, she was at church with me. I know her. She taught me the hymns, you know, like it’s she was vacation Bible school. This is not even like a long era ago. Um. And that sort of surprised me. In my mind, they are like 150. And then I’m like, oh no they great. My great grandmother’s age at this point. And that is that’s wild.
Kaya Henderson: Um. My news this week is um is different, but I think it’s not different. I think um one of the things that I love is finding out Black history that I did not know about. Um. And this was a piece of Black history that I sure did not know about. Um. So there is an organization in Santa Cruz, California, called Black Surf Santa Cruz, and they provide no cost surf lessons to BIPOC residents. It encourages community and encourages Black people to get in the water and learn how to surf. Um. And, you know, I was like, that’s great. Fantastic. Like we should we we can do anything. We should learn how to surf. And then um I I you know, I thought about this probably the way a lot of other people think about this, which is surfing is branching out and getting new folks involved. Um. But I learned that this is not actually um branching out. This is a return to surfing’s roots. Now, many of us know about the Polynesian and Indigenous history of surfing, but what we don’t know is that the Africans um were prac– had a practice called wave riding, using boards and canoes, which occurred on multiple spots along the African coast, even before the Polynesians. Y’all, file this under we’ve been doing this since. We not new to this, we true to this like Black people can do anything. I was so excited when I found this out. So there is a new documentary called Wade in the Water um by a guy named David Mesfin, who is Ethiopian but has lived in California for 28 years and got a steady diet of Black people don’ swim. Black people don’t surf. The water doesn’t belong to us, all of this kind of stuff. And he um made this documentary to look at the history of Black surfing and aquatic culture. And he learned about Black history and aquatic culture by reading the writings of a guy named Kevin Dawson, who wrote a book called The Undercurrents of Power: Aquatic Culture in the African Diaspora. Who knew? Who knew that we were surfing. Um. And so, you know, there are examples from history. So um, you know, everything that we’ve seen about surfing in the movies is all white people. They’re all blond. There’s music in the background. They’re having a good time. They’re, you know, appropriating from the Polynesians, of course. But um but what we don’t know is that the first written accounts of activities like surfing from Africa come through from 1640, where a German merchant adventurer described how parents around Ghana would tie their children to boards and throw them into the water. That’s surfing. Um. In 1834, the British explorer James Alexander wrote of boys swimming in the sea with light boards under their stomach who would wait for a surf and come rolling like a cloud on top of it. Um. Kevin Dawson believes that surfing evolved in Africa from for pragmatic reasons and that the West Coast doesn’t have a lot of inlets. And so people would have to learn to go through the waves in order to go fishing and then come back. So we learned how to surf [laugh] before many people were thinking about it. Um. And it just resituates us us as one, you know, the creators of everything um, which you look at fashion, you look at music, you look at I don’t I don’t know how, like I don’t know how people I don’t know how people claim dominance when there’s all of this evidence that we did all of these things. Um. And what it’s helping people to do is it’s helping Black people to reclaim a connection to the water. Um one woman who lived in Santa Cruz said she lived there. She started serving in her 40’s and she said she didn’t think that the ocean belonged to her until she encountered this community, she started surfing at like 43 or something. And um and now she sort of understands it. The people say the ocean doesn’t care what color I am. And so there is a place for us. Um. There is a in fact, a recent Diversity in surfing report found that Black and Latino individuals make up 40% of the total U.S. surfing population. Who knew that? And that they’re currently outpacing white surfers to comprise the largest growing demographic in the sport. There’s also a growing surf industry in Africa. Y’all listen, I read this. I was delighted to find out the history. I was encouraged by our reclamation of this. And um I’m excited to see this movie and figure out when it’s coming out and how to get my hands on it. Um. But I’d love and again, like, you know, Don, to your previous point about the teaching of accurate history, when people don’t know their history, they believe the lies that other people tell. We have believed all these lies for generations, that we don’t belong in the water, that we’re not swimmers, that we’re not surfers. And we are we have been we are the originators. And so um I don’t know this made me excited in a time where, you know, everything is crazy in the world. The reason why this Black Surf Santa Cruz thing came to be was after the death of George Floyd in 2020. Esabella Bonner, who’s a 28 year old, went surfing for the first time after the George Floyd thing. And she says, I’ll never forget my first time surfing. The weightlessness, it’s unlike anything. And she asked herself, why had it taken this long and how can I get more BIPOC people to experience it? Which is why she started the group and in commemoration of the George Floyd murder, they do a paddle out, which is where, you know, a bunch of surfers paddle out into the water in commemoration of somebody who is no longer with us, but they do an annual paddle out um in response to George Floyd. I hope that George Floyd in heaven somewhere recognizes how much he has unleashed, whether it is, you know, all of the the conversation about diversity in America to Black people surfing that might not otherwise have done that if it wasn’t for his sacrifice. So this just animated me. I needed something exciting this week. And so I’m bringing that to the pod to offer something a little different.
Don Calloway: I love it. I mean I, first of all, I’m just impressed by your grasp of the history of this. I can tell you got you got really into it. I mean.
Kaya Henderson: Right down the foxhole chile, rabbit hole. Right down the rabbit hole.
Don Calloway: That is because I read the article and most of what you said was not in the article. Very, very impressive. Um. Yeah. I mean, look, we we everywhere. We always have been everywhere. You know, and I think it just to me, it for us to think that we were not there is not by accident. You know, we were whitewashed from this history intentionally. Right. Um. And I saw something in your article. We can maybe tweet the article uh that talks about how a surfing documentary in 1960 depicted blond haired, blue eyed people on the West Coast exclusively as the originators of surfing. And to me, you know, the ’60s is like oh Technicolor now in color TV. And it just shows the power of media to create the narratives we now have. It’s very much not different than 1915 D.W. Griffith’s Birth of A Nation, which depicted things a certain way, Blacks as savages, you know, the Klan as these white saviors. And that is where we get some of the worst physical images of Black people. But it’s the power of media and the power of narrative and is created and disseminated through media that just created stories that we lived with from 1900 through today and obviously before that. But media created stories that we live with now for 125 years later. And surfing is no different than that. And this is very objective, historical fact that you’re giving us that shows that Africans originated surfing. And it’s wonderful. I can’t wait to tell my partners out in L.A., you know.
DeRay Mckesson: Um. I wanted to just do another history lesson to supplement the lesson that Kaya gave us. In 1965, there was an Ebony magazine article titled Surfing: Visiting California is expert at new sport, that is just about Black people surfing. One of the articles, one of the sections in that is called Few Negroes Take Up Surfing Despite Sport’s Fast Growth. So that is the framing, but it is there. Um. In 1975, there’s a guy named Tony Corley. He has a letter to Surfer magazine. It’s published. He’s a Black surfer. And he really he receives a ton of hate after he creates the Black Surfing Association. In 1981, there’s a Black surfer from Venice, becomes the first Black USA surfing champion in the boys division. So it’s actually really cool. You know, in 1983, Surfer magazine publishes a lengthy article entitled Black Surfers of the Golden State. So there’s a long history, but as we’ve all said, there is an intentional effort to make it seem like Black people don’t know, can’t do. And, you know, I think this is true of a lot of sports. What happens when they, quote, “professionalized and priced” people out? Because, you know, Kaya, when I heard you talk about people strapping boards under them, that is really you know, you don’t need $1,000 for that.
Kaya Henderson: Yup.
Don Calloway: That’s right.
DeRay Mckesson: But when surfing becomes the only way to surf is a $2,000 this and a wetsuit and it you know, it becomes this thing that even if you had the skill, you don’t have the money. You can’t participate in it because you literally can’t afford the way that it has been licensed and professionalized.
Kaya Henderson: Yes.
DeRay Mckesson: And that is interesting.
Don Calloway: Licensed and listen, we have to talk about we have to talk about intentional takings of Black land. Where was that land more precious, if not at a beach.
Kaya Henderson: Yes.
Don Calloway: And we saw Gavin Newsom return sections of that beach.
Kaya Henderson: Bruce Beach.
Don Calloway: Um. Outside of LA.
Kaya Henderson: Bruce’s Beach.
Kaya Henderson: We covered that on the podcast.
Don Calloway: Yes, indeed. Where were you allowed to be? Coinciding with this commercialized professionalism of of sport as an activity in this country? Uh. Listen, it’s all together. I can go I can I could get to preaching, but I’m a not I’m a not right now.
Kaya Henderson: [laughing] Well, let me know let me know when that sermon is happening because I will show up. Uh.
Don Calloway: Well, I do a lot of work. I do a lot of work in a universe called Heirs property, H-E-I-R-S property. And what it is, is uh the involuntary loss of acres of land, because that land is not in clear title. But we also have to recognize that systemic factors combined to take, right?
Kaya Henderson: Yeah.
Don Calloway: Uh. And and throughout this country, whether you’re looking at the Gullah Geechee.
Kaya Henderson: Yeah.
Don Calloway: Territories in South Carolina.
Kaya Henderson: Yup.
Don Calloway: Or beach territories in Los Angeles or Florida, there are intentional takings of property that could be used as commercialized, you know, resorts or whatever the hell or frankly, just even more pernicious, private beaches. You know, this is for me and my family to swim on, to surf on, to enjoy. And I just want to give a quick little shout out uh and send love to the Gullah Geechee community down in South Carolina. Who faced a tragedy yesterday uh in a bridge collapse like a gangway collapsed and some people passed in that unfortunately, as well.
Kaya Henderson: While they were celebrating a Gullah Geechee–
Don Calloway: Yes.
Kaya Henderson: –festival. And that is terrible. But yeah, honey. You can’t you can’t–
DeRay Mckesson: I didn’t know that, I didn’t hear that.
Kaya Henderson: –hold us back you can’t hold us back. We’ve been surfing. We’ve been doing all the things. Y’all mm, I love it. [music break]
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DeRay Mckesson: Don’t go anywhere. More Pod Save the People is coming.
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DeRay Mckesson: The state of Ohio has been no stranger to the recent news cycle since the presidential debates. This week, we welcome Ohio Congresswoman Emilia Sykes on the pod to talk about her ongoing advocacy around issues related to Black maternal health, domestic violence, abortion and more. Let’s go. Congresswoman Sykes, thanks so much for joining us today on Pod Save the People.
Emilia Sykes: Thank you for having me. Looking forward to the conversation.
DeRay Mckesson: Now a lot of people, we you know, especially during the election season, we hear about Congress and what Congress did do, didn’t do. We there’s a lot going on. But I think a lot of people want to know, what is it like to be a congressperson? Is it are you at the Capitol all day? Do you get to go home a little bit? Like can you help us understand what what is the actual work?
Emilia Sykes: That’s a good question. And I get it a lot. And people want to know what is a typical day and there’s really no such thing. It is the gift and the curse of the job. One day you are on the floor during debate talking about the issues of the day. The next day you’re back in the district shaking hands. Getting to see community groups, uh learning about all types of interesting things. Uh. The next day after that, you’re campaigning and you’re going to rallies and fundraising. And it really is an incredible opportunity to learn about the political atmosphere and also how the politics works and does not work for people. Um. And so one of the things I strive to do is to understand everything, learn as much as I can, and then use it for the benefit of my community, because it’s not very typical of people to be in Congress. And so while I’m here, I’m going to use the opportunity to take care of my community back at home. So it’s a cool job. I’ve learned a lot, but mostly I’ve been able to connect with my community in a really, really interesting way and deliver some meaningful results for them. So I’m grateful for the opportunity.
DeRay Mckesson: Boom. Now, before we start talking about the issues, let’s talk about you. Did you always know you wanted to [?] Congress one day or did you did you wake up and you’re watching TV and you were like, okay, okay, I’m going to run this day. Like, what was it’s a big decision to decide to run and a huge honor to win. What was it like for you to decide that this was the way that you can make change?
Emilia Sykes: So I have never wanted to be in elected office because my parents were in elected office and I saw exactly what it looked like. Uh. A lot of folks feel like this is glamorous work and you get all dolled up, you put on a nice suit and you stand in front of people and they clap for you and then you go home and have expensive dinners. And it is not that if you’re doing it right, if you’re doing it right, it’s not that. It is–
DeRay Mckesson: Tell ’em. Let them know if you’re doing it right. [laughter]
Emilia Sykes: It is hard work. You are constantly fielding calls from constituents, putting out fires where you can, getting information to people who need it the most, and then just trying to fight for your survival in the position. And so it’s a tough job to do, but truly is an honor because people rely on you to make decisions for them, for your community, for your for their families. And so it’s certainly something I don’t take lightly. So my goal in life was to be the principal dancer for Alvin Ailey American Dance Theater. I danced all–
DeRay Mckesson: Whoa!
Emilia Sykes: I know like I’m such a failure. I made it on a different stage on a different stage, but I had danced most of my life. I was a gymnast. I was a state champion gymnast, national finalist in vault. And so that was what I thought I was going to do. And then, you know, injuries happen, so you got to find something else. And I was really interested in public health, ended up getting a public health degree and a law degree so I could work on particularly reproductive health issues in policy settings. And then when my dad was in the state legislature and was termed out, I thought, okay, that could be interesting. He was encouraging me to run. I didn’t think it was for me. And when I saw who was ultimately saying that they wanted to run, I felt like they would they would be fine. But I felt like they wanted to have the title. They didn’t want to serve the community. And so I ran. I feel very responsible to my community. They raised me, they raised my sister and I, and they needed someone who was going to actually take care of them and care about them. So I ran. I was in the state house for eight years, the minority leader for three, and then um decided to run for Congress. And the decision to run for Congress was sort of from my time as minority leader, sitting on people’s couches begging them to run in districts that we knew were going to be very difficult to run and win in because they were gerrymandering, but given them the whole, you know, we need you for democracy. Democracy only works if there’s two parties who are engaged in an exchange of ideas. And if you’re not on the ballot and they have no one else, they just think that there’s just one way, we need you. And then people came to me and said, do you want to run for Congress? And I was a little hesitant. And then they gave me that same speech I was given. I was like, oh man, okay, well, yeah, I should probably be practicing what I preach. And so that’s how I ended up running for Congress. And also just really feeling committed and connected to the community and responsible for making sure that we had good government and someone who cared.
DeRay Mckesson: Boom. Let’s talk about the public health work that you have been championing in Congress. I’m super interested to talk to you about it. You know, I spend most of my time on issues of policing and mass incarceration, but I am I’m fascinated by the work around Black maternal health, which does not fall into my [?] of work. But there are so many women and people have kids who are impacted by this issue. Most of us see it in popular culture with Serena, who had her own issues with maternal care, with Beyoncé, who who had issues. Can you help us understand what is happening in your district, in your state? Like, why is this an issue for you and then what could we actually do about it? Like, what could Congress do? Or is it the states that can do something like what’s what is a part of the solution?
Emilia Sykes: That is a great question and I hope more people get involved in maternal health because it really does impact all of us. And, you know, I got involved in maternal health through infant health programs when I was at the state legislature, and it was the one bipartisan thing that we could do. The Democrats or Republicans, they wanted to save the babies. And we saw the disparities between Black and white babies and we were able to get Republicans to get on board. And so we took it and ran. And I remember a conversation we were having about Pack and Plays and making sure the babies had a place to sleep and in a safe sleep environment because a lot of moms were couch surfing. And I remember one of my colleagues, my Republican colleagues talking about it, and he said, you know, oh we’ve got to make sure you’re taking your kid, these babies, this couch surfing is an interesting concept. And then I looked at him and I said, but what about the mom? Like, you’re not talking about the mother who is sleeping on couch to couch to couch or feeling like she has to hold that baby because she’s afraid of where he or she may go or somebody might take them and do something to them. And then that’s creating an unsafe sleep environment. But let’s talk about these mothers who are caring for these children and living in situations that are unsafe, that are inconsistent. They don’t have enough money. They don’t have good food. We need to be concerned about these women. Why are we not talking about the women? And so it became interesting because as we were trying to engage folks in that conversation, it only turned into abortion conversations, which abortion is a part of maternal health. But you also have to remember that these women carrying babies are full human beings who deserve love and nurturing and care and safety. And so we had to, like, wrestle the conversation. And so coming into Congress, knowing the Black Maternal Health Caucus existed was great because we started one at the state level, and it was a way for us to look at these social determinants of health and ensuring that we’re protecting women. You know, one of the things that we don’t hear a lot of people talk about, which is the number one cause of maternal death, is homicide. Homicide. Someone is killing these women um and these accidental deaths.
DeRay Mckesson: Wow.
Emilia Sykes: Sometimes some of them are their partners, their boyfriends, their husbands. And we have to engage in the whole woman to ensure that our babies can survive, too. And so I’ve just been very, very engaged in this conversation because if women are not living in optimal living situations, that means their children are not, that means their partners are not. That means our communities are not. And so this is a whole community conversation when I’m when I’m discussing maternal health, this is what our communities look like. Is it safe? Do we have community policing? Do people have jobs? Is there lead in the water? Is there clean air? All of these things matter when we’re talking about maternal health. And they’re also very important community building activities.
DeRay Mckesson: Is there legislation that Congress can pass that will deal with maternal health?
Emilia Sykes: Yes. The Black Maternal Health Caucus put forth a omnibus bill very early in the Congress, which deals with transportation issues, housing issues. And then the first version of the omnibus was a little bit more clinical in getting maternal review boards and some funding and encouraging. We saw this from the vice president with extending Medicaid care beyond just two months, I believe it was into the full year after pregnancy. So we’ve done some of these things, but we’re now starting to talk to talk a little bit more about reproduction and reproductive health care. And the Dobbs decision has given us an opportunity to do so and has also shown us some failures of what happens when we are not talking about abortion care. The thing that my colleagues didn’t want to talk about before because it was too controversial is now creating situations where we see women dying. Women in Georgia, we just found out dying because they show up at the emergency department miscarrying and the doctors don’t know what to do. They’re afraid to get prosecuted. So they just say, well come back when you’re septic. I mean, what kind of thing is that to say? And they come back and it’s too late and now they’re dying. You have women like Brittany Watson, Ohio, who she went to the emergency room three times. They sent her home, but they didn’t refer her to an OBGYN. They referred her for prosecution. You have a ten year old rape victim in Ohio because of an abortion ban couldn’t get an abortion in the state of Ohio. Ten year old ten year old had to flee the state to get the care that they needed. And so now we are trying to reinstate Roe. We have an IMTALA, the emergency medical treatment, a labor act resolution that says when somebody shows up in an emergency or in active labor, you have to treat them. You can’t just let them die and suffer. We have the Contraception for All Act, which is again, a part of the contraceptive and a maternal health process to decide when you want to have a pregnancy. So we have several pieces of legislation. We just don’t have 218 people willing to vote in favor of it.
DeRay Mckesson: There we go. Okay. When we think about the issues that are being raised during this election, what are you hearing from your doorknocking and and you outside as you campaign both around the president, but also your own seat, what are you hearing? You know, I know people are talking about abortion. I have to imagine people are probably talking about education or public safety. But I’m interested. What are you hearing?
Emilia Sykes: People are cautiously optimistic and they want to be hopeful in the future. But things that are holding them back are the cost of living. Things are just too expensive. Housing, health care, groceries, gas, energy. It’s just too expensive. And so we’ve been working where we can to help lower the cost of goods and services. Um. The shrinkflation, you know, all this corporate greed that’s happening that took advantage of inflation is not right and people are suffering because of it. We have two, uh one bill around lowering taxes. It’s called lowering your Taxes Act. It expands the child tax credit, which cut child poverty in half and expands the earned income tax credit, which is the greatest anti-poverty program um that we know. And so it it is a really good bill to get more money in people’s pockets. And by the way, earned income tax credit has been shown to lower infant deaths. So it’s a win win all over the place. But we’re trying to get to the heart of getting people to feel comfortable, secure economically. Public safety is a huge issue in our communities. We know that law enforcement is here in our communities. They are part of our communities, but we want them to protect and serve us just like they do all other segments of the population. So we’re constantly trying to build those relationships, get more funding for community policing so people can engage with law enforcement officers outside critical incidences, and then people are concerned about their freedoms. They want to make sure that they can be free to vote. They want to be able to decide when and when not to have a child. They don’t want to be concerned about being killed by unnecessary random gun violence. People are concerned about their freedoms, and our freedom for democracy is a big deal about that. So we’ve gotten a lot of positive feedback from Democrats, from Republicans, from unaffiliated independents, because they are looking for genuine, authentic candidates who understand what’s important to them and who’s going to protect their freedom and even their freedom to vote against me. We know that’s not not even guaranteed if our election goes a certain kind of way. But we are building a coalition of folks who are concerned about the community. And it makes me so proud to represent this area because folks are you know, this is the salt of the earth kind of people in the Midwest. So I’m excited always to represent them.
DeRay Mckesson: Boom. Let’s talk about domestic violence. I know that one of the bills that you introduced and got done when you were in the state house was around domestic violence. I would love to learn more about that with our listeners. And also, can Congress do more around domestic violence?
Emilia Sykes: Well, absolutely, Congress can do more. But I’ll talk about the bill I introduced. So it was a bill I worked on my first term, we got it through in a Republican supermajority all the way to the Senate floor where it died in lame duck because of a back and forth fight. And it was a bill to allow victims of intimate partner violence to obtain civil protection orders. Ohio and Georgia were the only two states in the entire country who did not allow these victims to get protection orders from intimate partners. And so domestic violence is a legal term. And if you had a long time boyfriend–
DeRay Mckesson: Wait wait wait wait wait slow down, that’s crazy. What?
Emilia Sykes: Yes. Yes. So–
DeRay Mckesson: No way, Congresswoman. Okay. Tell us. Explain. And so if you can’t get a protective order, what does that even mean?
Emilia Sykes: So it meant that you were just fending for yourself. And so unless you had a child in common, you lived together or you were a spouse or former spouse, you could not get a protection order. And the other mechanisms for protection were very, very difficult to get. And it just left a lot of victims very vulnerable. And so we had a back and forth for a long time because some people just said, well, these aren’t real, these aren’t real relationships. But as we know, people are delaying the onset of marriage. Many older adults, after they get divorced or widowed, they end up in relationships. They don’t want to get married. They don’t want to live together. But they were still experiencing violence. We had nothing to protect these people when there was a situation. And so this bill was it should have been a no brainer. We had 48 other examples include in the District of Columbia, but some people just weren’t interested in it. And so I remember the first day of session, my next my second term, and the speaker of the House Republicans said to me, you’re going to like my speech because I’ve got something really exciting for you. And he announced that that bill would be House Bill one, making it the most important piece of legislation for that General Assembly. And so it finally got passed. And so I was really excited to be able to carry that legislation, but also was just sad that people had to use it. And so we kept trying to find innovative ways to be supportive and changing to fit modern needs. So in Congress, for example, we have a bill that prohibits stalking by electronic tracking devices like Airtags. And so I got that from a constituent whose boyfriend put a little Airtag in her car. She had no idea she heard this beeping. She went to the police station and they said, oh this is a airtag. She didn’t know anything about it. She went to file charges. She couldn’t. There was nothing illegal about stalking someone with an Airtag There still isn’t anything illegal. And so having to catch up with technology that really is meant for good, but sometimes people use it for nefarious purposes is where we’ve tried to find opportunities to lead on these areas, and especially making sure that young people are developing good, safe relationships, that don’t carry into adulthood. So that’s um some of the ways in which the work has followed me from my time in the State House. But we just continue to find ways in which we could do better. We can help people break leases. That’s very difficult. We have a bill for that. For older victims who need access to Social Security, we have a bill to make sure that they can still have the financial resources to go. We know that the health care providers and the first responders could always use a little bit more training and sensitivity with dealing with victims so that they believe them as they’re presenting in their emergency departments or police departments. And we have a bill for that, too. So those, of course, are all my bills. I think my bills are the best bills, but there’s a lot of different things that we can do to make sure that we’re protecting victims.
DeRay Mckesson: Okay. So we’re getting close to Election Day, which is wild. It feels crazy that we’re, you know, it both feels endless and feels like it’s coming really quick. How do you want people to think about the presidential election? Like, you know, you’re in Congress. You’re one of the few who is there who gets a front row seat to what’s happening to try and save democracy. How should the everyday voter be thinking about the upcoming election?
Emilia Sykes: So I will tell you a story from this morning. This morning I was picking up coffee and a couple of the people around recognize me from some commercials and then the cashier said, well what are you and why are you in a commercial? What do you do? And so I said, I’m a member of Congress and I’m running for reelection. So they’re talking about my campaign ads. And she said, oh I’m going to vote for you. She said, I don’t vote, but I’ll vote for you. And I said, Well, baby, let’s think about it like this. Don’t vote for me. You’re voting for you. You’re voting for your family, your kids, your community and your future. And I am merely a conduit to getting you towards the goals that you want. And so what I encourage people to do is not just think about voting because they like a particular candidate or this presidential candidate or not. I want people to to be invested in this because this is their future. This is their community. And the decisions that I make on their behalf is because of my community. They tell me all the time, you’re doing this well, you’re not doing that well, change this, do that. And this is the feedback that I have to take because I work for the people in this community and I want people to feel like that and that they are owed that respect from their elected officials. And I want people to feel like that from the president all the way down to the prosecutor, to their city council person or their township trustee. These are people who work for you. And no matter what happens, someone is going to be in that role. And why shouldn’t it be the person that you chose that you have a connection to, that you can go find at your coffee shop and say, Hey, Congresswoman, I saw this. I don’t know how I feel about that. Can you explain it to me? And so those are the interactions that I appreciate because it gives me a real life understanding about how people feel about voting, but it also gives me a chance to remind them this is about them. You may see me on TV, you may see me in the commercials, you may see my ads. But this is about you. This is about this community. And you get the decision and you get to make the decision about who is there. And that’s how I think folks should look at every single election.
DeRay Mckesson: So what do you say to the people who are like, I voted my whole life? I protested. I went to the rallies, I emailed, I called and and yet it feels like nothing has gotten better. What do you say to those people whose hope is challenge?
Emilia Sykes: Yeah, those are um tough conversations because and hopefully I have enough time to actually dig in to what is it that you feel like is not changing? And and sometimes it’s just a matter of educating people on what’s what’s not going on. So, you know, we have been very successful in our office with working with our constituents. We respond to almost 10,000 emails every month. Um. We are constantly trying to show people a customer service way of being in elected office, again I work for you. I am your employee. This is my my job um evaluation every two years and you get to decide if I stay or if I don’t. And so when we start talking about things like infrastructure in our community, for example, we have a bridge that is a critical bridge. It’s a beautiful bridge, but it’s falling apart. It’s literally been ten years since our county engineer has been ringing the alarm about it. Since I’ve been in office, we’ve been able to provide them nearly $10 million to start the planning phase to get a new bridge. I have a community who has been having a hard time connecting their water tap because they own a septic system. And so we worked with their community and now they have the final resources so that the folks can turn on their faucet and get water connected to the city line rather than well water or have to rely on a septic system. We have when we especially when we take the time, can communicate to people how we have been able to grow our economy, create more jobs for people, protect their safety. But there’s that their right? You know, their reality is what’s important. If they don’t feel like something is moving fast enough, then let me know and we’ll do the best we can. But we can also explain this is let me tell you the reason why we don’t have gun safety, because the Republicans right now control Congress and they don’t want to. They think it is a fact of life. It’s not. This is a choice. So this is why it’s so important to engage and and to vote and to vote the kinds of people in office who will make the change that you are asking for. We have $35 cap on insulin. That’s huge. You think about all the people who are going and digging into their life savings to pay for just their medication. It’s capped at $35. It could be for everybody. But for the fact there was a few folks who said everybody shouldn’t have this, well, let us get 218 members in the Senate and the presidency, and you will now see that. And so it doesn’t we also have to remind people that it’s not just that you have a government, that you have a Congress, that you have a president. It matters who the people are in those roles and how many of them are there, because this is ultimately a numbers game. And so always and constantly reminding people of that, educating people on how the process works. And it helps. Sometimes you don’t win everybody over, but it’s worth the time to take the time to educate folks on the process and getting them involved in it as well.
DeRay Mckesson: So where do people go to stay in touch with you? Is it Twitter? Is it Tik-tok? Is it Facebook? How do people support the campaign? Learn more about it and learn more about what you’re doing.
Emilia Sykes: People can visit Emilia Sykes for F-O-R congress.com. You can be connected to all of our social media platforms. You can sign up to volunteer. You can learn how to vote in your communities and make a donation. It is your one stop shop for finding all things Emilia Sykes. You can see our platforms or where we stand on these issues, but we really do just want to encourage everyone to register to vote before your deadlines. If you prefer to early vote, please early vote if you vote on Election Day. But just make a plan, you can go to our website. We have some links on how you can do that information, but come see us. Come talk about us. You can type my name. There’s only so many Emilia’s with an E, so once you type it in, you’ll be able to find me pretty easily.
DeRay Mckesson: Boom. Well, it was great to meet you, Congresswoman Sykes, and I can’t wait to see you in real life one of these days.
Emilia Sykes: Sounds like a plan. Can’t wait to see you in real life one of these days too. Thank you. Thank you so much for your time. This was fun. [music break]
DeRay Mckesson: Well, that’s it. Thanks so much for tuning into Pod Save the People this week. Don’t forget to follow us at @CrookedMedia on Instagram, Twitter, and TikTok. And if you enjoyed this episode of Pod Save the People, consider dropping us a review on your favorite podcast app. And we’ll see you next week. Pod Save the People is a production of Crooked Media, it’s produced by AJ Moultrié and mixed by Vasilis Fotopoulos. Executive produced by me and special thanks to our weekly contributors Kaya Henderson, De’Ara Balenger, and Myles E. Johnson. [music break]
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