House of the Dragon Finale with History of Westeros + New Marvel Trailers | Crooked Media
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October 28, 2022
X-Ray Vision
House of the Dragon Finale with History of Westeros + New Marvel Trailers

In This Episode

On this episode of X-Ray Vision, Jason Concepcion and Rosie Knight dance with dragons! In the Previously On (2:03), Jason and Rosie discuss the trailers for Antman and The Wasp: Quantumania and the Guardians of the Galaxy Holiday Special before digesting the big creative shakeups at DC. Heading to Westeros in the Airlock (19:49), Jason and Rosie dive deep (deeep) into the season finale of House of the Dragon, recapping and exploring leadership, lore, and motherly love. And in this season’s last round of Ask the Maester (1:10:40), they answer listener questions about House of the Dragon.  (WARNING: the Hive Mind contains major Fire & Blood book spoilers as well as lots of fun predictions – you have been warned!) Then in the Hive Mind (1:29:32), Fire & Blood readers rejoice because Jason and Rosie are joined by Aziz and Ashaya of the History of Westeros Pod for a SPOILER-filled conversation about changes from book to screen, what they might expect – and hope – from season 2, and more.


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Jason Concepcion Warning. This podcast contains spoilers for the finale of House of the Dragon. Plus, we’re going to be talking about the books on which that show is based with our good friends from History of Westeros, and that will include major spoilers for stuff that’s going to probably appear in season two and maybe even season three in season four and however many seasons that show goes. So watch out and beware. Hello. My name is Jason Conception. Welcome to X-ray Vision, the Crooked podcast, where we dive deep into your favorite shows, movies, comics and pop culture. Joining me, of course, today is the great, powerful and super encyclopedia of comics history. Legendary Godzilla writer Rosie Knight. Rosie, how are you?


Rosie Knight Good. I’m happy to be here. I’m ready to ready to talk about some sad Game of Thrones business.


Jason Concepcion First, on the Previously On, we will be getting into lots of MCU news Ant-Man and the WASP Quantumania Trailer, Guardians of the Galaxy Holiday Special Trailer, The various DC Shakeup News including the hiring of James Gunn as the CO Kevin Feige of the DC universe. In the Airlock, of course we’re going to talk about the season finale of House of the Dragon. After that, we’re going to give you the last round of Ask the Maester for season one of House of the Dragon. This is it, folks. In the Hive Mind, our good friends Aziz and Ashaya, from the history of Westeros pod are going to join us to talk about House of the Dragon in a book centric, spoiler filled conversation. So this is for book readers. If you don’t want to be spoiled on a bunch of stuff, that’s probably going to happen in seasons two, three, four of House of the Dragon. Then maybe skip this one. And of course, if you want to jump around, check out the shownotes for the timestamps. First up, Previously On. Okay, let’s start with the newly released trailer for Ant-Man and the WASP Quantumania your thoughts, Rosie?


Rosie Knight Wow. I was not expecting it to be like this. I was expecting a trailer. It’s been a long time, but it is so different from anything they’ve done.


Jason Concepcion Very, very different.


Rosie Knight Ant-Man and the WASP. I will say the beginning of the trailer is in my lovely town of San Pedro, where I live. That’s what we saw them filming.


Jason Concepcion That’s right.


Rosie Knight When the were there. Scott is looking happy, is loving life as an avenger. People are saying hi to him like they think he’s Spider-Man, but still. And then it’s just like that is very MCU ish as we know it. But it just throws us into the quantum realm after Cassie creates a quantum satellite, which, to be honest, very silly idea. But.


Jason Concepcion Yeah.


Rosie Knight You know Scott store Cassie does that. They go in and then it’s just like this unreal Star Wars/ Spy Kids, super hard sci fi.


Jason Concepcion Very Spy Kids.


Rosie Knight It kind of blew my mind. I did not expect them to go in this direction over so much of the movie to actually be set in this really expanded version of the quantum realm.


Jason Concepcion I was left wondering. It feels as if obviously Kang Jonathan Majors, Kang the Conqueror is in there looking great. Great. I came away from the trailer feeling like, okay, he’s here, but he might not be the big bad. Mm hmm. I wonder what it is that Scott, Cassie and Janet are going to be fighting against, because it does not seem like it’s going to be Kang. It seems is actually that their kind of interests are aligned and whatever it is that Scott helps Kang with is going to be the thing that gets the ball rolling towards, you know, the next, you know, the ultimate like showdown and the eventual Avengers movie when it does happen.


Rosie Knight Yeah, I totally agree from the beginning what I’ve really wanted because we knew from Loki that Jonathan would basically be playing multiple different versions of Kang, which makes sense as the nature of his character is that there are many different versions of Kang living through all different times and realities. I’ve always wanted it to be that he would meet a version of Kang, who was an ally. I thought maybe it would be more like a version who is just in the normal wild, who’s a scientist, who’s a very early version. But I like this idea that there’s this established version of Kang who is going to try and ally himself with Ant-Man. You know, we see him call him Ant-Man. He recognizes who he is, what his powers are. He doesn’t mistake him for a different avenger. The big question, like you say, who is the threat? We know that basically the version of the quantum realm that we have in the MCU is a mixture of the quantum realm. And then this thing called the Microverse, which came from these weird old seventies toy comics, the Microsnauts. So they can’t say that. But I wonder whether what we see here is some version of Chronopolis, which is the this kind of space where Kang lives in some of the comics where he can open portals to all different dimensions that he’s conquering at once. I wonder if there’s something where one of those portals and you know, it’s always going to go back there. I’m not going to say X-Men, so be surprised. But I’m going to say Fantastic Four.


Jason Concepcion We’re going to say it eventually.


Rosie Knight We’re going to say it eventually, but it’s Kang. So I’m going to say some kind of negative zone threat, some kind of Dr. Doom threat, some kind of more direct Fantastic Four threat. I also think there has been rumors going around and this is very rumors. So no confirmation here that one of the next Marvel special presentations will be about Silver Surfer. So I also wonder if we could see like a Galactic, and if they do that, I would assume it would be about him before he became the heroine of Galactus. So but if that’s the case, then in that case, you know, this would be about Nor and Rad. I wonder if they’re going to introduce the Silver Surfer. That means maybe the bigger threat is someone like Galactus. You know, I would I would love to see something like that, you know? And I like the idea of Kang being an ally first and a villain later, because Jonathan Majors brings so much complexity to that performance. In Loki, he was just so brilliant. That’s my favorite episode of Loki is the finale episode with him, and I’m very excited to see where they go with this, especially because. Something I find very interesting about this set up is the idea that Janet Van Dyne, you know, Michelle Pfeiffer, icon, original, like one of the founders, leaders of The Avengers. I, I love the idea that she knew that Kang was there and she knew that this wider version of the quantum realm.


Jason Concepcion That’s why she was so concerned about.


Rosie Knight And she didn’t tell them.


Jason Concepcion Yeah.


Rosie Knight That to me, that is very interesting. What does she know? Why did she think it was safer for them to not be there? There’s there’s a lot of really interesting character work they can do here. And the fact that they’re doing it in this kind of bonkers super sci fi world where they’re sort of traveling as nomads through the quantum realm is just so unexpected to me. Like, I’m really excited for it.


Jason Concepcion The suit. The Kang suit looks amazing. I had a crackpot thought.


Rosie Knight I love this. You better say it.


Jason Concepcion I, listen, this is not going be right. But I have crackpot thought just because of the way his face looks and the way the mask looks. I do wonder, you mentioned the multiple versions of Kang, and which one is Scott going to be interacting with? Which one is going to be in this movie? I wonder if the suit is like some kind of quantum entanglement suit where different versions of Kang can inhabit the suit at different times aligning on need. I and I wonder if that’s not a way they could do it. Well, he could. He could be different versions of Kang.


Rosie Knight It’s a great idea.


Jason Concepcion In this one suit.


Rosie Knight Yeah, I think that’s a brilliant idea. Also, it makes a lot of sense that if he had the technology to create something like that with Chronopolis, then he would have the technology to create a version of that in the suit, where the suit is essentially a portal in itself. Also, I will say like the obvious big bad for a movie like this where we have the Ally Kang would be like an immortus Kang.


Jason Concepcion Yeah.


Rosie Knight And you know, Kang is the villain, but Kang is an ally because there are many versions of Kang. So that would also be very interesting to see how they will play that. But I. I also didn’t realize this was coming out in February. Maybe because time is moving so fast, so we don’t even have to wait that long. Now I’m ready.


Jason Concepcion We won’t have to wait that long. Up next, the Guardians of the Galaxy,  Holiday Special trailer. My immediate reaction is great. More Cosmo. More Cosmo. Cosmo.


Rosie Knight That’s the one, baby. That’s the most thing I like the most. From Guardians of the Galaxy was the collector’s collection. You know, seeing Cosmo, seeing how in the dark, obviously, who I hope is going to make his way into the main MCU once again. Now he’s married to Darcy. Yeah. You know what? This is exactly what a Guardians of the Galaxy Christmas special should be. Mad and Drax they go in to cheer up Star-Lord, who honestly is a whiny baby. So I don’t know why they’re bothered, but anyway, they’re going to do it because they’re good friends and they love him. And how are they going to do it? They’re going to kidnap Kevin Bacon. Yes.


Jason Concepcion My sense is like a like a one shot in comics, like the like the how like the Star Wars holiday special before it.


Rosie Knight Exactly. This is what this is named after.


Jason Concepcion This is going to be a very fun thing that will not impact the canon.


Rosie Knight Yeah.


Jason Concepcion In any kind way.


Rosie Knight Especially now, the next news that we’re going to talk about, we can assume that this is going to be very out of canon. And I love this idea that it’s kind of like it’s like Marvel’s what if Drax was Santa Claus or something like that, you know, it’s like he would be kidnaping people and causing Nightmare Before Christmas level troubles.


Jason Concepcion So up next, DC Films has announced that they have found their Kevin Feige. It is in fact two people. It is writer director James Gunn.


Rosie Knight Shock.


Jason Concepcion Of the various Guardians of the Galaxy movie, but also Peacemaker and also Suicide Squad over at Warner Brothers, DC. And producer Peter Safran. They will lead the film, TV and animation division as co-chairs and co-CEOs of DC Studios, with Gunn focusing on the creative side and Safran more of the business and production side. So you would imagine that’s wise, considering that, you know, putting a director, not just a director, but like an active working director who is.


Rosie Knight Currently doing work on a Marvel movie.


Jason Concepcion In in in control of an entire studio. This is we’ve never really seen this before. This is this is crazy. You know, I’ve seen numerous, like, posts online that are something like Kevin Feige has created his own supervillain with James Gunn. You know, obviously, there’s a lot of work to do. A lot remains to be seen. It’ll be fascinating to see what their you know, what their slate of films is. I would imagine it’s going to be some it’s going to be like two years before James’s like influence is even felt on the screens I would imagine. Your thoughts?


Rosie Knight So I think that it’s probably going to seem sooner because DC wants to feel like there’s a shape. So we’ll probably get some classic DC slash Marvel style announcement where you get the slate of movies and you’re just like, Half of these definitely aren’t going to come out. But I think you’re right. Two years seems realistic. It’s a four year deal, from what I understand. So I’m like, two years feels like they’re really going to it’s hopefully going to go well so they can extend the deal and kind of do more with it. I really like this choice. Safran and James Gunn have worked together for a long time. You know, it fits in with Zaslav style of the kind of people that he wants to put in charge of things, a.k.a., you know, white men.


Jason Concepcion Two white guys.


Rosie Knight Like two white guys.


Jason Concepcion Two for the price one.


Rosie Knight Two for price of one. And but like, the truth is that Safran worked for Gunn for a long time. He was like his manager, and he actually produced the DC movies that I like the most. Like everyone knows I love Aquaman, I. Can’t wait for the next Aquaman movie. I love Shazam. I think it’s an absolute underrated gem. It’s just like pure superhero magic. He did Suicide Squad, which I adored. Peacemaker, which was a huge smash, also worked on The Conjuring, which is the biggest horror franchise of all time. So he has the producing chops and he has them at Warner Brothers. And the good thing about Gunn, like Suicide Squad really showed me in a way that I hadn’t really seen before. And I’m such a huge fan of that movie. I think it’s really radical and just great. But like, I knew that he loves comics. He loves comics, and that’s something like that Feige has that a lot of these other execs have not had. Right. He loves comics. And not just that. He knows how to look into a catalog that spans 80 years and find unexpected characters to explore and unexpected stories to tell. That is what the MCU was built on. I know it doesn’t feel like it. I know Captain America. And I am. I feel like they were the biggest superheroes in the world. They were not at the time the case. And Gunn goes even deeper than that, you know. So he made a movie with Suicide Squad that’s like one of the best superhero movies ever made. And it has Polka-Dot Man, and it has a legacy version of Ratcatcher. And the Ratcatcher storyline is unbelievable. It has so many unexpected characters. It has Starro, you know, it has these cosmic, strange characters brought into this really grounded world. I’m excited to see what this looks like in the long term and if this is their ten year plan, they got someone who’s going to do something that’s very different than Marvel, and that’s what they do.


Jason Concepcion I agree. And I think having Safran in there, to your point.


Rosie Knight Yes.


Jason Concepcion Is wise. You know. You know, on the creative side, there’s a lot of work to do in kind of producing a cohesive shape and tone out of a lot of disparate kind of projects. And that is going to be a lot. And so you would imagine having Safran there to kind of be the guardrails. It just seems wise, you know, it will be interesting to see what happens.


Rosie Knight The other thing that I think is actually really key, which is something I kind of been talking about, is like, you know what else James Gunn has? He has like an unreal Rolodex of talent who loves to work with him. Like, if you look at the people he works with and how they love to continue to work with him on different kinds of projects he is bringing with him an immense amount of star power, who would likely be very happy to do more things with him in whatever guise wherever he ends up. And we’re talking about a studio whose main focus is on making a Superman movie. I have my version of what that should be at DC, which is basically they should just do a Channing Tatum as Superman movie and make it as bright and sparkling as Rob’s, you know, Batman movie was dark, and then you have the two of them meet. But I am not in charge. I’m not James Gunn. Spoiler alert, guys, but I’m very interested to see they have the man who who made a Superman. What if Superman was a horror killer? You know, with Brightburn, that’s the man who’s now in charge of DC Studios, along with Peter Safran. I find that very interesting.


Jason Concepcion Well, up next, here it is, folks. The finale of House of the Dragon.


Rosie Knight Did you know dragons are coming?


Jason Concepcion <A.D.>.


Jason Concepcion And we’re stepping out of the airlock and onto the beautiful beaches of Dragonstone to discuss the season finale of HBO’s House of the Dragon, The Black Queen, written by Ryan Condal. Directed by Greg Yaitanes. What a yeah, this what a great episode. And also it just made me sad. It made me sad for various reasons. Many, you know, chief among them, how hard Rhaenyra has tried to avert the very thing that is now happening.


Rosie Knight This is the ultimate proof of what we said this whole season, which is at every point she’s been giving everyone incredibly generous, offers, thoughtful ideas, trying to bring peace. She’s been living up to what her dad would have wanted. And we see that just torn apart in the most brutal way. Today I am wearing all black mourning clothes and also because I am now officially in The Black faction. I always thought Rhaenyra was right, but I wasn’t. Alicent apologist hashtag as.


Jason Concepcion I’m an apologist for her as well.


Rosie Knight Me too. Like in this epsidoe I feel she’s still adds into that. Like it’s so I love. I know, I know it’s controversial and I know we’ll talk about this, but I love the way that they subtly change that big moment in this episode to add a little bit more to that, that sad kind of tragic kind of contrast.


Jason Concepcion We’re going to talk about that and let’s get into it. So we open on Dragonstone, this wonderful moment between mother and son. Rhaenyra is pregnant with her sixth child. If it’s a girl, she shall be named Visenya and she finds her son Lucaerys, Luke looking over Aegon’s painted table. He is worried that, you know, Lord Corlys is obviously still ailing, healing from his wounds on the Stepstones. He might die, Driftmark might then pass to Luke and Luke is like, I don’t think I’m ready. I don’t think I’m ready for this. And Rhaenyra really quite Affectingly talks about how, you know, she didn’t think she was ready also when her father named her heir at 14 years old. And now he is at about that same age and dealing with all those those issues. And she says, in time, I came to understand that I had to earn my inheritance. There’s this really heartbreaking moment where he’s like, How did you become so perfect? She’s like, If you only knew.


Rosie Knight She’s like I’m not. You know, it’s so such good stuff here. And just absolutely heartbreaking in the context of what’s to come. There are so many great Rhaenyra Luke moments, this episode.


Jason Concepcion And then Ser Lorent Marbrand, one of the Kingsguard comes and bringing news that Princess Rhaenys has arrived and she really, really, really needs a meeting like right now.


Rosie Knight Wonder what she wants to talk about.


Jason Concepcion I wonder what it is. And of course it is the tidings of the death of KingViserys’ death and the crowning in the dragon pit of King Aegon the second. And this news hits Rhaenyra like a physical blow. She goes into labor. She knows because again, she’s been through this, you know, five times by now that this is, one, it’s way too early. The Maesters are saying so. And then she can feel that this is not going to turn out well. Daemon, meanwhile, is processing all of this. There’s a great moment where he like spins Dark Sister. You know, he’s got it in his hand point, you know, in the scabbard point down like on the ground, like a cane almost. And he’s like spins it in his hand, then leans it up against the table. And it’s like Viserys has been slain. He’s obviously furious. They ask Rhaenys Why so? Yeah. Like, obviously they were like, Well, Rhaenys, they made you swear to Aegon? She’s like, they wanted me to and I refused. And they ask her how she escaped. She tells them. And then Daemon is naturally for all of us really hearing is that he didn’t. Yeah, Rhaenys said. Didn’t just take care of it right then. Why didn’t you just take care of it right then? I think she gives an excellent answer that war was not mine to begin.


Rosie Knight Oh, so good. And it totally leans into like the great points that you were making. But I have to say, like Rhaenys this episode, just absolutely delivers on every point. And you kind of you see that even if it was not a direct influence or a maternal relationship, a lot of what Rhaenyra learned was from the way that she saw Rhaenys behave. And this comes through in this way where this week and this episode, Rhaenys becomes the ally to Rhaenyra that we always wanted her to be, and there is this understanding that between them that is so brilliant. And when she says that that war is not mine to begin, there’s just no questioning her. Daemon can say what he wanted me as mad as he want, but she’s right.


Jason Concepcion And it also does something important, I think, which gets underlined again and again and again throughout this episode, which is Rhaenyra you’re the Queen now. That’s your decision. Look at the way everybody is treating you over the course of this episode as they’re looking to see, is there any weakness here, like their father. Like Daemon is challenging her. Who will she stand up to this? She laid that decision at Rhaenyra’s feet. And you can hate it. You can disagree with it. You can be frustrated with it. I certainly am. But I but I you really do understand the logic. And I got to say, like Rhaenys, at this point, I think maybe my favorite character in the show, I’m just, like, fascinated by her wisdom, the way she is. She, you know, she’s got that, like, world weariness of someone who has been right.


Rosie Knight Yep.


Jason Concepcion For decades. And it is just now that people are like, you know what? You were right about that. And it’s like.


Rosie Knight Yeah.


Jason Concepcion I’ve been saying this for years.


Rosie Knight I love that. And also it kind of is one of those funny moments where you feel like, She-Hulk did this a lot. We talked about it where they kind of know what you’re thinking and they preempted you. They knew that we were all going to be like, Well, Cersei. What about them? Cersei would have done this.


Jason Concepcion Right.


Rosie Knight But Rhaenys isn’t Cersei, and that’s actually what makes her a great leader. That’s what makes her a great person. She’s not going to make that decision that’s going to end up costing the lives of everyone. And by doing that, she, at least for a small modicum of time, inspires Rhaenyra to consider the idea of peace in the realm and what that would take.


Jason Concepcion Yeah, Rhaenyra goes to deliver. She’s refusing the help of her midwives and her Maester, Gerardus. She is just like in this fury. It’s it. The feeling is that let’s just move past this delivery so I can begin the hard work of of trying to avert this war. Of course, the baby is still born and dies. It is. And yet another hard to watch delivery scene, as you know, it’s is a conversation I think worth having, which is. You know, why make this decision to show it? I think you can come down on either side of it. The thing that I think about it is besides the very trite, like, oh, it’s in the books, like you have to put it in. Yeah, of course it’s in the books that. But I find myself like interrogating why it is so easy for me to watch like any number of, like, deaths appear on screen. And it it’s hard to watch someone deliver a child.


Rosie Knight Yeah.


Jason Concepcion You know, I don’t have an answer for that, you know.


Rosie Knight But I just really I said, I think, you know, a good thing to think about because we’ve talked, you know, a lot about representation in these shows in the way that House of the Dragon has done a really great job at changing the way that we see certain kinds of sexual violence, though the way that they show birth is definitely very visceral, but something that, you know, was a big conversation around the original Game of Thrones is like, why can you not see an erect penis on TV? But you can see someone got their head chopped off. What does that tell you about that part of somebody’s body and what does it tell you that to watch a birth is so much more unsettling for us than to see somebody being tortured or have their tongue cut out? I really like that. That’s like a conversation question it’s making you think of, because I think it’s one of the biggest things about TV. You can turn on broadcast TV and see somebody gunning down a bunch of people, but you can’t see, you know, a nipple on some broadcast TV and you can’t see you can never see, you know, a penis or all the things. It’s really, really interesting the ideas of what is explicit and what is not.


Jason Concepcion While Rhaenyra is going through this, Daemon swings into action. You can tell this is the moment that he has been waiting for, for years. He’s ready to plan. He’s ready. He’s like, Man, the watchtower sight, the skies. Everybody’s like, you know, man, your battle stations, all that Rhaenys goes out to the beach, calls Prince Jace and Luke to their mother’s side. They they find her in the midst of giving birth. She tells them the news. KING Viserys,  Your grandfather’s dead. The throne is being usurped. Here’s what’s going on. Jace takes it. The whatever they’ve been doing to prepare him for this moment in these.


Rosie Knight It’s working.


Jason Concepcion He at work, he takes it really well. There is a really small moment on the beach right before this where, you know, he and Luke are sparring and Luke falls down. And it’s that generational trauma being passed down again where he, Jace is standing over Luke going what was that? Like in to the point where one of the kingsguard is being like, let’s maybe take it easy on him, like allow him to learn. But here again is this trauma and and violence being passed down. Jace asks, What are we doing? And Rhaenyra is like, Listen, nothing happens unless I order it right now, okay? I just need to get past this. She’s basically saying and just everybody stand down until I am ready to rule. And then she’s like, Where’s Daemon? Jace is like, I will. I’ll go find him. Okay. Rhaenyra wants Jace also to realize, Hey, you’re the heir now, okay? So many hopes are pinned on you. So. Just be aware of that. Daemon is with, you know, this this kind of like burgeoning black council that is like coming together that will soon coalesce around Rhaenyra, but like he’s really at the wheel right now and he’s sending he’s getting ready to send ravens, word reaches Dragonstone that Lord Corlys is up and he is sailing there. He’ll be there shortly. Rhaenyra you can hear her cries echoing through the castle. She’s calling for Daemon. And people are all around the table, Ser Marbrand, Lord Celtigar. They’re looking at him and Ser Marbrand speaks up and is like, Hey, are you going to. Do you want us to? Do you want to speak to the Maesters and just see what’s going on right there? And Daemon gives him the icyest stare like. Don’t question me right now.


Rosie Knight Daemon didn’t need every knight of the 30 that he had. You probably would’ve had your head chopped off just then for, like, making it seem like he needed to care about it. But he. He needs every man.


Jason Concepcion Daemon plans to fly to the Riverlands. Talk to Grover Tully. Jace comes up and he’s like, Whoa, whoa, whoa. The queen says, Don’t do anything. So she’s back on her feet. And Daemon. And now there’s this really interesting push and pull here where Daemon is like, send the Ravens and Jace is like what the queen said not to send them. And then, of course, the Ravens do get sent because Daemon, you know, you’re not you’re really it’s going to be really hard to not follow Daemon’s orders right now. And and Daemon is also telling Jace, hey, listen, you better get your head in the game because you’re going to need to be on a dragon patrolling the skies soon. Jace follows Daemon to a meeting with Ser Lorent Marbrand and Ser Stefan Darkling, members of the Kingsguard who are assigned to the Queen and her family. Daemon gives them the opportunity to declare whether they are for the Queen or whether they are traitors, essentially. And. Listen, if you declare for the queen and then you flip later, it’s going to be very, very painful. Daemon makes it very clear if you declare for the Greens right now. Okay, that’s fine. But I’ll make it quick. I’ll make it quick if you do it right now. Meanwhile, again, while this is happening, Rhaenyra finally gives birth. The child is stillborn and the Queen prepares the child herself by on her own for the traditional Targaryen funeral right. Ser Erryk arrives as they’re having the funeral. He has brought a crown. This is the crown of King Jaehaerys and then later, her father, King Viserys, which he smuggled out of King’s Landing. And he swears fealty before everybody to the Queen. Daemon places the crown on Rhaenyra’s head and everybody bows before her.


Rosie Knight And talking of push and pull as that great moment, Daemon is looking at that crown and he is looking longingly, for too long. But he knows in that moment that the best move is to put it on Rhaenyra’s head. But there is a moment where he thinks about it and he’s considering it.


Jason Concepcion He wants the war. He wants it no matter what. And I think and you see it over the course of this episode where Rhaenyra taking her responsibilities extremely seriously, feels that, listen, a lot of people are going to die. It is my duty to try as hard as I can to avert war if it’s at all possible. Whereas Daemon is just like, now we’re fighting. Now we go. Now, why don’t we go right now? And now the planning begins in earnest. The Hall and the painted table is turned into a council of war. We’ve got the Black Council now here. Officially, we discover that Aegon’s painted table lights up.


Rosie Knight Shocking. First time.


Jason Concepcion Shocking stuff.


Rosie Knight Shocking. Beautifully done.


Jason Concepcion By the time we get to Stannis and Game of Thrones they had lost like the lighting they lost like the peace st.


Rosie Knight Just like you could just put some candles to attach to it.


Jason Concepcion You didn’t know? You know it’s like finding like an 8-track like today,  8-track player and being like, how do I even know what they can do with this thing? Yeah. Daemon announces the Queen with all her full titles. There is a very interesting moment where everybody bows their head, but Rhaenys kind of doesn’t.


Rosie Knight Yeah. I mean, they. They re everyone else kneels when Daemon puts the crown on and Rhaenys stays standing but gives her like a smile, she’s like.


Jason Concepcion Now here is my take. She and Corlys have been such a team. Even though Corlys has really thought like, I’m running this, for a lot of it, right? My take is, we’re going to make this decision, Corlys and I as a family and I’m going to see what what he wants to do. And we will talk to each other, which we see later, before I officially like it, and then we will declare together. But I’m not going to declare, right?


Rosie Knight No, I love that. Also, I think as well, it’s like a sign of Rhaenyra’s respect for Rhaenys and this kind of growing respect they have. Rhaenyra doesn’t make her bow. Daemon doesn’t go to her with a sword. Rhaenys is watching over and she’s saying I did this. If I didn’t come to you and tell you what happened, this would not be happening for you.


Jason Concepcion That’s a great point. There’s there’s that moment at that first meeting where she first arrives and tells them the news, Rhaenys, where, you know, Daemon is like very, very hot. Again, that Rhaenys didn’t burn everybody while Rhaenyra is like, hey, well, we, you know, as we have been doing every night, we will pray for Lord Corlys’s return to health. We have been you know, I come on, like Daemon has not been praying every night for anything, for anyone.


Rosie Knight He knows what he wants.


Jason Concepcion But it shows you the diplomat, like how Rhaenyra has really grown into a leader and she understands the weight of it. It is very notable in this first meeting of the Black Council that Queen Rhaenyra immediately includes Baela and Rhaena.


Rosie Knight Yes, love that moment.


Jason Concepcion Immediately has them right around the table. That is a huge nod to their importance and also an example to, you know, her burgeoning government about what kind of woman she is going to be. And then Daemon gives this the state of war, which is things on dragonstone are okay, but all in all, not really great. They have Lord Celtigar, they have the Staunton’s, they have House Massey, Darklyn, Barenmon. They are with the queen. Rhaenyra is like, I think we can count on the Vale. They were, that’s my mother’s people. Maester Gerrardis thinks that the Riverlands are probably keen as well. Ravens are going to Lord Grover Tully we discover, and Rhaenyra is like wait a second, I said nothing was supposed to happen. So there’s a little bit of of a look between those two. And then Daemon says, listen, I’m going to go to Riverrun personally. And like, of course, it was my idea to send the Ravens against your express wishes. And then there is some discussion of, okay, where do Storms End and Winterfell fall in this. Winterfell, it is believed the Starks will never go against anything they have pledged with. They’ll never break an oath. It doesn’t matter how many years it’s been, it doesn’t matter who did it. They will stay true to what they said. And the Queen also thinks that Lord Borros, son of the late now, Lord Boremond Boraetheon, may need some reminding, and that is an understatement. The news from Driftmark is that Corlys is coming. And then of course the Lannisters are never going to turn, it’s never going to turn black, they’re going to stay green. Which is why Daemon believes, again, that the Riverlands are so important. His plan is we sieze Harrenhal, right, House of the, you know, the seat of Lord Larys Strong. So in a stroke we weaken one of the Queen’s most important supporters, and we cut the realm in half. They’re discussing all of this again and Lord Bardamus Celtigar of Claw Isle, who by the way is also the Celtigar also descended from the blood of old Valyria, though no one remembers this. I imagine that they would be like, Hey, remember us? We’re Valyrian too. Don’t forget us. It’s like, Hey, before we get into all of this planning, we have the Dragons. Do we not? Like we, we have the advantage here. Daemon, give us a quick count. The Greens have three adult dragons Vhagar, Sunfyre and Dreamfyre, ridden by Aemmond, Aegon, the elder, the King and Helaena, plus Daeron the Daring, who is off screen in Old Town, Tessarion. But that’s a juvenile dragon. Meanwhile, The Blacks have Syrax, Caraxes and Meleys. Plus Vermax, Arrax, and Tyraxes. Also Moon Dancer, Sea Smoke, who’s unclaimed right now, former formerly Laenore Velaryon’s dragon. Plus the the mounts of old King Jaehaerys and Queen Alassane, Vermithor and Silver Wing who are on Dragonstone in the Dragon Mount right now plus three wild dragons. So that is 13 according to Daemon against four dragons, only three of which are adults. Plus Daemon is like, I got a lot of eggs incubating. So Daemon is like, yeah, let’s, let’s attack. The time now is to attack. We can have The Greens heads on spikes in two weeks or something like that before they can really debate this too much. It’s clear also that Rhaenyra doesn’t she’s not she’s like, listen, we’re not just like plunging into war right now before this debate can really take shape, Ser Erryk brings word that there is a galley on the way, flying the banner of King Aegon. Otto Hightower is here. Daemon, the Queens Guard, other men in arms go to meet Otto, who is backed by several members of the King’s Guard and other Knights. Otto brings terms from Queen Alicent. He’s been directed by Alicent to deliver terms only to Rhaenyra. And so Rhaenyra appears on Dragon Back landing behind Otto, just as she did 20 years previously in The Crisis of the Egg. And it is a really incredible mirror image moment. There’s some jousting about about who is and isn’t a traitor. Rhaenyra’s like I’m the queen.


Rosie Knight Otto keeps calling her a Princess,  like, no matter how many times she stops him. I mean, you would think, Otto would have learned his lesson at this point about Dragonstone and Rhaenyra, but he has not. So, you know, let the chips fall where they may.


Jason Concepcion And you have to say, certainly with you would imagine with Alicent’s influence, Aegon has offered some really generous terms.


Rosie Knight These are just Alicent’s terms. Let’s be real, like their Aegon’s terms.


Jason Concepcion I agree with you. I think these are Alicent’s terms, obviously. But obviously they come in in King Aegon’s name. If Rhaenyra bends the knee. Rhaenyra will be confirmed in Dragonstone in perpetuity. Okay, that’s safe, which will pass to her. And they call her sons with Laenor, a.k.a. Harwin Strong, her true, her her true born sons, Jaehaerys will get Driftmark and all the holdings of House Velaryon. Viserys and Aegon will be given places of high honor at court. Cup bearer, squire to the king. Royal pardons for all The Black supporters. And you know, honestly, it is a good deal. The question then becomes, do you trust the Greens to honor their side of it? Certainly Daemon doesn’t. He’s like never going to happen. What about this? We kill you all. Otto points out that all the symbols of legitimacy belong to Aegon, right? Otto overreaches a little bit by saying, Hey, and also House Stark, Tully, annd Baraetheon, you know, I think they’re leaning to us.


Rosie Knight They love our offers.


Jason Concepcion He makes it clear that they haven’t yet made it clear that they haven’t really decided. But he’s basically counting it against them. This infuriates the Queen Rhaenyra. She rips the pin from Otto’s lapel and throws it into the ocean. And then Otto signals Grand Maester Orwyle who delivers a note to Rhaenyra and is the page from the book that she and Alicent were studying all those years ago in the God’s Wood. It is, you know, the history of Nymeria and tears well up in Rhaenyra’s eyes. And I have to say, I’ve seen a reading of this online where people are like Alicent isn’t trying to connect with Rhaenyra. She’s saying, you know, because, look, the history of Nymeria is that she took the ships and they fled from Essos made this kind of circuitous, circuitous journey, eventually landing in Dorne. She’s not saying take the deal. She saying Run. She saying flee. I actually don’t look at it that way because like the end of the Nymeria story is Nymeria finds a home. She’s not running anymore. She burns the ships on the beach. So they’re there as a symbol to her people. Like we’re not going anywhere. Where, this is it. I think she was just trying to connect.


Rosie Knight Yeah.


Jason Concepcion With her friend in it, like saying, hey, your friend is still here. These are my terms to your point. Like you have a you have a supporter and a friend on this side. It is me. I will be the guarantor of your safety and your family’s safety in this deal.


Rosie Knight Yeah. And that’s from that moment, you know, those those were the moments when they were the people who were closest to each other in their lives. You know, this is from the scene where they’re laying on each other that they are their only companion within the walls. I like I think you’re reading is the reading that I saw when I when I first watched it and then on I concurrent rewatches. I just think yeah I just think you can see Otto, Rhys does a great job. He’s kind of pissed that he had to bring it down.


Jason Concepcion He doesn’t want to hand it over.


Rosie Knight Yeah, he, he doesn’t want to reconnect them because he already had that moment of fear at the dinner table when he saw them holding hands and, and reconnecting. So yeah, I love that moment and it just makes everything that’s going to come so much more tragic.


Jason Concepcion Blades come out now because Daemon is like, Fuck this shit. What about. What about this? Uh, Ser Erryk go over there, grab Otto, bring it to me, and then I’m going to fucking chop his head off.


Rosie Knight He’s like, I want the  pleasure, baby.


Jason Concepcion I want to do it. I have been waiting 20 years to do it. Rhaenyra shuts it all down. She says King’s Landing will have my answer on the morrow. We’re back at the Black Council Hall. Daemon again is pointing out that we have the horses, we have the dragons. We can end this tonight if we wanted to. Rhaenyra is like, you know, my father told me the histories and I’m well aware of them. When dragons flew the war, everything burned. I do not wish to rule over a kingdom of ash and bone and dime. Daemon is fucking irate. He’s like, Listen, you’re trying to avert war. They declared war. They have already declared war. So what are you going to do? Rhaenyra is like, okay, we can’t have this conversation in front of everybody because we can’t have fractures at the top. Clear the room. She is like going to pull rank. She’s here is the moment where she’s she is. In her mind she’s sharing Aegon’s prophecy with somebody who knows about it.


Rosie Knight Yeah, she says to him, you know, we have a bigger mission. Like, you know, she says, you know. Little does she know, he does not know.


Jason Concepcion She is. Right, in her mind, this is this is to remind him, hey, remember what we’re doing here? Like, remember our greater the greater mission that we have to keep to. And Daemon reacts violently and terribly. He grabs her around the throat. And it’s very, very clear that he did not know about this. And and. Whatever is going through his mind in that moment. I don’t want to make any excuses for him because it is fucking horrendous. And honestly, if Rhaenyra wanted to and if and if it wouldn’t weaken her.


Rosie Knight If Erryk had been in there, he probably would have chopped his head straight off. And it’s like it’s done.


Jason Concepcion 100% And the issue is. She fucking needs Daemon right now. She needs him. He’s a dragon rider. He is. He’s been to war. You know, she needs.


Rosie Knight We know as well, like Alicent has her insane, psychopathic ally in Larys Strong and Criston Cole, and these men who will just murder people for her. So we know in a dramatic irony sense that Rhaenyra also needs her like violent wild card. She just needs it to not be directed towards her. But I love that moment. Like Emma Darcy sells it so well when Rhaenyra like clocks that Daemon didn’t know and she just laughs in his face.


Jason Concepcion She just like.


Rosie Knight She’s like you didn’t know. And I’m just like, Wow, I love you. This is so good.


Jason Concepcion And then Daemon says something that is worth thinking about. Certainly dreams didn’t make us kings. Dragons did. He leaves. Corlys wakes up to find his wife at his bedside. She is just pissed at him for abandoning the family to the Stepstones time and time again. When when she needed him, when the family needed him. Now their children are dead. She gives him the latest news from the capital. Viserys, the death of Viserys, the usurpation of of Aegon. Oh also your brother is dead. What! Corlys is shocked and amazed at this, but also recognizes in his brother’s actions the fact that he openly called Rhaenyra’s children bastards in the presence of the king. He recognizes the same kind of ambition that has driven him and he chased now. Now he’s like, Listen, that’s it. We’re done, okay? We’re done. We’ve lost both of our children. We’ve got our grandkids. Let’s retire to Driftmark, and just sit this one out. Enjoy our grandkids. But of course, Rhaenys, like, you know, lets him know that’s it’s really not an option because your grandchildren are going to be in in harm’s way. If Aegon is king, they will never be safe. Baela Rhaena, Jace, Luke, Joffrey. They are going to be constant danger. Corlys joins the Black Council and he’s looking shaky on that cane. Daemon Conspicuously absent. You know, the queen makes some excuses for him. Corlys looks over the situation map on the table and he says, You know, this doesn’t look great. This doesn’t look like a lot of forces really to seize Westeros. And, you know, Rhaenyra is like, well, we’re hoping also for the Riverlands and for the Baraetheons and, you know, the Arryns. And Corlys says hope is the fool’s ally and then plays very, very coy. But then eventually. Promises the strength of his house and his fleets to the Queen”s cause. And it is a huge, huge, huge fucking win because at this point with more dragons and the bigger fleet they have, the skies and the sea. It’s going to take some time to get an army together. But this is this is huge.


Rosie Knight Yeah.


Jason Concepcion And it gives them some leverage. If, as she surely does, Rhaenyra wants to try and negotiate a peace to this.


Rosie Knight Yeah. And I think something that I really love about this moment is like. Really again, it shows Rhaenys’ power. We know that really Corlys is probably going to say yes. But the thing that makes him make the final choice is he sees Baela and he sees Rhaena and he sees them standing with Luke and Jace. And he kind of realizes, like, well, if I want my family to be okay, this is my family. My family is at the Black Council, my family is here. So it’s that, again, that character driven emotional storytelling that has made this season so powerful. And that’s the thing that that tipped him over the edge.


Jason Concepcion And Corlys gives some good news, too, which is the status of the Stepstones are they are fully under his control meaning that, from that strong point, The Black faction can strangle the gullet in the Narrow Sea. They put it under blockade. Stop all shipping and supplies into the capital if they so wish. The Queen, of course, is still needs the great houses to get in line. They’ve decided the Lannisters are off the table. But Winterfell, the Vale, Storm’s End, need to be contacted and they need to see where their allegiances lie. Jace steps up and says, Hey, don’t send ravens, send us. What stronger message could there be than Princes on Dragon Back.


Rosie Knight Baby Jace


Jason Concepcion Good idea. Bad idea. Well.


Rosie Knight We’ll find out. We’ll find out


Jason Concepcion We’ll let you decide. Jace will head to the Eri and then off to Winterfell. Luke will go to Storm’s End. Make sense. It’s the. It’s the closest ride. It’s like very short flight over there.


Rosie Knight He’s got a Baby Dragon.


Jason Concepcion Got a baby dragon. It’s a quick kind of jaunt and then jaunt back. Rhaenyra makes them promise, you’re going in peace. You’re not going as warriors. You’re going as messengers only. And honestly. All things being equal. Usually that would have been enough to protect them. And I think in any other kind of situation, like if you take dragons out of it.


Rosie Knight Yes.


Jason Concepcion As we’ll see, I think that might have protected them. Of course, it doesn’t quite go that way. RHAENYRA can see that Luke is scared to go, and she reminds him that, hey, listen, the Baraetheons are blood. They they you know, we’ll get into this more in Ask the Maesters. But the Baraetheons, the only reason the Baraetheons are high lords of any place is because the Targaryens put them there. That Orys Baraetheon, back in the day that was Aegon the Conqueror’s like best friend, maybe more than that you know. But like the history say they were very very very close and and Aegon put him you know on the seat at Storm’s End. And so hey, listen, don’t worry about it. They’re blood or you know, Boris’s ego will be stroked by the fact that a prince is arrived. Surely the other side will not have thought of something like that. Like we’re the only ones who would think of sending a prince on Dragon back, so don’t worry about it. It’ll be great Vermax, Arrax and Moon Dancer fly off. Daemon goes to the dragon mount He is singing a Valyrian lullaby And he goes And I don’t think you could say claims, but.


Rosie Knight It seems like he’s trying to woo.


Jason Concepcion Woo, makes contact with Vermithor, who is you know, again, the the former dragon of Old King Jaehaerys and certainly the second largest, second oldest dragon currently alive, second only to Vhagar, which is huge. But still Vermithor and Silver Wing, huge dragons and big gets for the Black Faction. Luke arrives at Storm’s End and it is of course storming. And bad news, Vhagar is there. You’d think at that point, you’d just leave.


Rosie Knight I would have just left. I would have just left. Luke, please.


Jason Concepcion I’m out. I think I’m out. Like.


Rosie Knight You know, it’s hard, like in this show, right? We’ve seen the Dragons a certain extent, but this is the first time you realize how big Vhagar. Vhagar looks as big as Storm’s End. Vhagar is.


Jason Concepcion Yes.


Rosie Knight Huge. Vhagar is looming out of the clouds. It is just the. Just leave, babe. Your mom will be happy that you go home. You don’t need them that much.


Jason Concepcion Considering how nervous Luke has been since we’ve known him and certainly over the course of this episode, his anxiety about inheriting Driftmark, about this mission, in particular about his own place in the world, it is stirring to watch the courageousness with which he goes forth. He figures, okay, well, I’m going to do it. He goes in, delivers the the message to Lord Borros, who, by the way, can’t read.


Rosie Knight No cannot read. Needs the Maester.


Jason Concepcion Cannot read is described in the in the books as, quote, never a man of words. So  Lord Borros has to have his Maester read the deal that is offered to him. Which is


Rosie Knight Remember your vow, bitch.


Jason Concepcion Yes, fair play for fair play, too, to Lord Baraetheon, not apparently as rich is the one that King Aegon has offered, which is a betrothal.


Rosie Knight Yes.


Jason Concepcion One of his daughter, a marriage to one of his daughters.


Rosie Knight It was like.


Jason Concepcion Yeah.


Rosie Knight You, you. Oh, you you made an oath come to. And Aemmond, you know, has gone to deliver this message of a marriage proposal. Luke


Jason Concepcion And so you’ve come with no marriage proposal.


Rosie Knight And Luke is like I’m not free to marry. You know, again, this is the problem when you send like a 12 year old. Could have just lied, could have been like, yeah, sure, marry me, like the side with us. And then you just give him a different Lord when you get back.


Jason Concepcion I and also I, you know, I think it was unwise to send Luke, but I understand like, you know, blue sky thinking. I understand the thought behind it. So that makes sense. I do think it was unwise considering the context. I also think. We needed to prepare Luke for things that might have happened. You know what if The Greens got there first?


Rosie Knight Daemon would have been, like, a great person to send for this specific situation.


Jason Concepcion Why not send Daemon is is the bigget quetion.


Rosie Knight That’s the biggest quetion right.


Jason Concepcion Get it I guess I guess you’re thinking if they attack we need somebody here who’s ready for war. Okay, I get that. So at the same time.


Rosie Knight It’s not far.


Jason Concepcion It’s not far. At the same time, it’s like it does not take, it shouldn’t be like genius level planning to go. Okay, well, what if the Greens made contact first? What is our backup pitch?


Rosie Knight There was enough time to make a new.


Jason Concepcion Yeah.


Rosie Knight They made new flags for the ships with a green Targaryen Dragon. They’ve been planning for a long time. You got to do that overnight like. It is. Yeah. This was a terrible plan. I hate to see it. I understand. This is.


Jason Concepcion I hate to see it.


Rosie Knight This is.


Jason Concepcion Good idea in theory.


Rosie Knight Good idea, bad execution. This is the thing I think that is really key to this, is that. Rhaenyra overestimates her children because let’s be real.


Jason Concepcion Yeah, I think that’s right.


Rosie Knight At ten and four, Rhaenyra was a badass who went and ended the you know, the crisis of the egg. Rhaenyra is a 14 year old flying around on dragon back stopping wars from happening. And she when Jace steps up and says send us.


Jason Concepcion That’s a great point.


Rosie Knight She sees that in them and like what she wants for them. This kind of logical strength where you can go and you know the right thing to say and but they don’t. That’s not the way that they’ve been raised. That’s not the they never had that full belief of their family behind them because of the controversy around like their parentage. And that’s just not who Luke is. Luke is just a sweet baby.


Jason Concepcion And very, very sweet boy. That is such a great point. Of course, Rhaenyra is going to think, Yeah, I did shit like this one. 13, 15. Yeah, you can handle this. I did it. Unfortunately, no, Aemmond is mocking Luke the whole time. He’s like, I want Hey, you’re going to have to cut your eye out, by the way, to get out of here. He. He shows the sapphire that he keeps in the eye socket of his throws a knife across the hall. Lord Borros won’t let anything happen in the hall, but of course, like he doesn’t control the skies. And what happens outside. Luke.


Rosie Knight He’s going to come to regret that.


Jason Concepcion Gets he gets on Arrax and is like and you could tell both the rider and the dragon are nervous and he’s trying to calm the dragon down like, listen, let’s just get out of here. A chase ensues. Luke gets away. Luke gets away on Arrax like the dragon is much smaller. They fly down into a canyon. Vhagar can’t fit down there. They get away. Unwisely. And it’s unclear.


Rosie Knight I think it just isn’t Arrax.


Jason Concepcion I think this is the I think this is an Arrax decision. Arrax makes the very, very unwise decision to, you know, belch a little bit of flame at Vhagar and Vhagar’s rider.


Rosie Knight I think he’s scared. That’s the way I read it. It’s kind of like he’s just like a body instinct, like a muscle memory. Beecause he’s so small


Jason Concepcion I think that I. I think that. I think that the Dragons want war much like Daemon does, and I.


Rosie Knight I like that reading.


Jason Concepcion I think that the dragons are just ready to fight.


Rosie Knight Yeah.


Jason Concepcion And I think everybody, just as there’s been so much underestimating going on, as you said, like Rhaenyra overestimating her sons, I think there’s been some underestimating of dragons as creatures with their own decision-making process.


Rosie Knight Their own agenda, you know, no, you. I think this this is what I love about this episode. Like as much as it was so hard to watch, I love how well we can now go back. And I was going back and watching earlier episodes and see the times when Viserys was like, We never should have created dragons. Dragons are mistakes.


Jason Concepcion He knew it.


Rosie Knight Terrifying. I think Patty did an interview where he basically said to Viserys, it felt like he was riding a nuclear bomb. He knew that it was this weapon of mass destruction and it terrified him. And he was the only one who didn’t underestimate the dragons. And that comes. And just to a head in the most horrific way in this season.


Jason Concepcion Yeah. I mean, Viserys says earlier in the season it’s an illusion that we control them. And here you see it. So Arrax does this attack. Aemmond is, he can feel Vhagar going to respond and is trying to call Vhagar off like don’t don’t don’t.


Rosie Knight He’s screaming No, no no.


Jason Concepcion Don’t. Serve me. Don’t do this. But of course, Vhagar doesn’t listen. And in one mighty chomp kills Arrax. Kills Luke. Poor babies. They are dead. They pieces of dragon and young boy are falling into the sea. We go back to Dragonstone where Rhaenyra is still at the table. And Daemon comes up to deliver the news and we see her turn around and you could see on her face that whatever, whatever, whatever off ramps there were, we are past that now. Now it is time to fully go to war. She is absolutely furious. It’s a chilling moment.


Rosie Knight Yeah, we get the two face, the two facial performances from Emma Garcy’s Rhaenyra and the kid who plays Aemmond. And when he realizes what has happened and he makes.


Jason Concepcion That look on their face.


Rosie Knight Where he’s basically like, What do I admit I’m a kin slayer? Or do I admit that I can’t control my dragon? And Oh shit, I just started a war. There’s, like, so much that goes over his face and he’s just so horrified. And I found that to be a very powerful choice, because the truth is, well, these kids have not ever been taught the realities of war. Like, to them, it’s this horrible trolling, bullshit game. But that’s not that’s not what it is like. People die. If you threaten to kill someone, they can die. You know, an Aemmond is just having that realization just then that he killed his cousin, his companion, someone he grew up with.


Jason Concepcion His nephew.


Rosie Knight His nephew, yeah.


Jason Concepcion Absolutely. He will absolutely wear the moniker of a kin slayer, that will. He knows that that will happen now. And I mean to your point. We had just gotten talking done talking about how Rhaenys, though it was obviously a frustrating decision for a lot of people, declined to start a war that was not hers to start. Aemmond just he just got word that was not his to start. That was not his place to do that, to to go out and immediately fire the first shot in the most. What is going to be a.


Rosie Knight In gruesome fashion.


Jason Concepcion Devastating. In a devastating civil war. And kill a messenger too, like now who was not. It’s like now he says this is not self defense.


Rosie Knight He was an emissary. He was not there as a warrior. That is a it it’s very well done because Borros even says it like you can’t do that. He came as an emissary. Yeah. There is a certain amount of rules and etiquette that Aemmond is broken here that go even beyond, you know, usurping. This is about the next step when you’re trying to navigate power. And he just absolutely decimated any chance of any kind of peaceful ending. And we see the and oh, he knows it. And then we see it in Rhaenyra’s face, it’s done like it’s over.


Jason Concepcion The other the other thing that really strikes me is as we watched Rhaenyra struggle so mightily to avert this war. Is that, and Alicent too, you know in the previous episode in her own way and I think very sincerely trying to slow down this machinery that is like sprung into motion is that at this point, it’s kind of out of their hands, like all of these warriors around Alicent and Rhaenyra want to fight. They want to do it. Daemon wants to fight. Jace has been preparing for this whole life. Otto has been waiting to kill Rhaenyra and her entire family. Whatever these two want to do, the moment when they could have stopped it is gone because it’s just out of their hands. It’s out of their hands. And not only that, I think, Alicent, you know, we we said last week, Alicent will regret, I think, placing a crown on Aegon’s head in the end the loss of agency and influence she has. I think after I think the last moment, she had to have any influence over Aegon, over the Green Council ended with those very, very generous terms.


Rosie Knight I agree.


Jason Concepcion You know, from her perspective that were offered that ended with the death of of Lucaerys Velaryon. And I think that is, she will realize now that she doesn’t have much say in anything, I think.


Rosie Knight Yeah, I think so too. And I think it’s not just going to be Aegon that she’s lost control of, but also Aemmond. Because for Aemmond to survive this, he is going to have to. I think that and as we know from like the history books, I think he’s essentially going to have to act like it was something he did out of choice. And that’s going to put him against Alicent and him against Rhaenyra in an incredibly brutal way where the truth is, we know it was just like a very sad mistake of an idiotic teenager.


Jason Concepcion And it’s very man, it was very, very sad. But I can’t we can’t wait for season two. Up next, more House of the Dragon and Ask the Maester.


Jason Concepcion <A.D.>.


Jason Concepcion To celebrate the last round of Ask the Maester. We have emerged from the Citadel to answer your questions.


Rosie Knight Jamie asks early in Game of Thrones, Jorah tells Danny that the people of Westeros don’t really care who sits the throne. Do common people care about Aegon versus Rhaenyra?


Jason Concepcion I think that that is a good perspective. And honestly, no. You know, like if we use, you know, medieval culture, a European medieval culture, like it’s a kind of guide here. National identity was not really a thing. And moreover, you know, the small folk are worried about tilling their crops, working as craftspeople, whether this person is their lord or that person is their Lord, or this person is their king or queen. Their lives stay the same. The income inequality is like an unimaginable gulf. There is no upward mobility. Their position will never change no matter who is in charge.


Rosie Knight The boot is always on the neck. No matter who wears it.


Jason Concepcion The boot is there and it is very strongly on their neck. And what they care about is who is. Which one of these people is going to make my life actively worse? And in that sense, that’s really the only way they care. They they truly are fearful of the people who rule over them and just looking to live life as quietly and safely as possible.


Rosie Knight Taryn asks, What was Daemon singing?


Jason Concepcion Daemon was singing a Valyrian lullaby. Titled, and I’m not going to be able to pronounce this correctly, but Horos Bartosi, which translates in English With Three Heads. Words by Ti Mikell and David J. Petersen, who is the linguist who has designed all the languages in Game of Thrones and House of the Dragon, and the lyrics translated into English are: Fire breather winged leader. But two heads to a third sing. From my voice. The fires have spoken and the price has been paid with blood magic, with words of flame, with clear eyes to bind the three to you I sing. As when we gather and with three heads we shall fly, as we were destined beautifully for you.


Rosie Knight Okay, so I need to say something then after that.


Jason Concepcion Yeah.


Rosie Knight I didn’t know those were the lyrics. I got a message from one of our listeners, Whitney Jane, who’s written, who told me a theory that just blew my mind, which was the idea that the death of Visenya could have been a blood sacrifice to allow Daemon to have two dragons. And with the lyrics to this song and the idea of the three headed dragon is, do you think there’s a possibility that that is the case? Because I had no idea that that’s what the lyrics meant by.


Jason Concepcion Whoa.


Rosie Knight Yeah, I thought that was just so wild.


Jason Concepcion That is very interesting and I will need to process it. But you know, Blood Magic was part of old Valyria certainly was part of the kind of the magical, the culture of magic. As you know, Viserys has mentioned himself. There are rumors that, like in other parts of Essos, like Qoharik, as they were trying to create their own version of Valyrian steel. A lot of the experiments that they were doing were with blood sacrifices to create this like magic metal similar to Valyrian steel. So I would not. I would. I think that’s a very interesting theory. That’s all I’ll say. I think that’s a lot to think about. That’s a really interesting one.


Rosie Knight Okay, let’s do it.


Jason Concepcion Wow. That is a mind blowing one. Yeah.


Rosie Knight Okay. So we got some Valyrian steel questions.


Jason Concepcion Yeah.


Rosie Knight How strong is Valyrian steel? How does it compare to Bhaskar, Adamantium, vibranium.


Jason Concepcion That’s funny. That’s grat.


Rosie Knight You’re the man to ask and where. And then that was Ben. And then James asks, where did everyone get their Valyrian steel swords?


Jason Concepcion Valyrian steel is it’s very comparable to beststar and adamantium. I’ll get to that in a second. It is, you know, lighter than regular crucible steel and is much, much, much stronger, basically indestructible. Once it’s forged and hammered and folded into shape, the blades are said to never lose their edge. These are the weapons that are around right now are hundreds, you know, 300 years old, something like that, some 400 years old. And the fact that they never need to be sharpened tells you that they’re essentially indestructible. Right. Very similar to Adamantium in that way. Adamantium also once the molten metal cools, indestructible. Now, the technology for creating Valyrian steel has, of course, been lost. But there are very highly skilled artisans in Qoharic who I guess know certain spells that allow them to rework the metal. And, you know, we saw that in Game of Thrones when Tywin Lannister hired Tobo Motte from Essos. I don’t think they say his name. They may say his name in the episode, to melt down the Stark family sword, Ice, into two swords that was made possible because again, those Tobo Mott knows certain spells and knows how to do that. Now that also those secrets in Qohoric, the secrets of reworking Valyrian steel are tightly, tightly, tightly guarded. A Maester went over there to kind of study them and he was like publicly whipped several times because he was like getting too close to the secret. Vibranium is significantly different in that it has that unique property of absorbing and storing energy, kinetic energy in particular, and that it is then able to like release it. Also in the movie version, you see that, you know, it’s just in everything, it’s in the in, in Wakanda in particular. It’s in the plants, it’s in the organic matter. And that this is also forms the basis for their very advanced technology. I would imagine that vibranium is in Wakandan, you know, computer chips, etc. and that has some sort of special properties. Of course, you know, Valyrian still doesn’t work that way. Also vibranium and adamantium, different than Valyrian Steel in that there are several versions of both of those metals, right? There’s the Wakandan Vibranium, there’s the Savage Land Vibranium, and there’s different versions, adamantium, there’s several versions, not to mention the Multiversal versions of those. So it’s different. How did they get into Westeros? There had been contact and trade relationships between the kingdoms of Westeros and Old Valyria before the Doom. Dragonstone was the entry point for this, the westernmost outpost of the Valyrian free hold. We don’t exactly know when the blades started coming in, but based on clues from the books, you can date it to like a couple of hundred years before The Doom, which was 114 years before Aegon’s conquest. The clues are that. Like just for example, in Game of Thrones, Hearts Bane, which is the Tarly family sword is mentioned as being, quote, nearly 500 years old. And then in Cat’s chapter of Game of Thrones, she’s watching, you know, Ned in the Gods Wood clean off Ice after having decapitated the the guy who fled from the Night’s Watch. And she says that Ice is, quote, said to be 400 years ago. So using that as a window and then counting back, you can say, you know, approximately 314 B.C., something like that, a Bright Roar, which was the Lannister family’s sword that got lost because some loony Lannister decided to sail off into the Sunset Sea with it came into their possession like a hundred years before The Doom. So let’s call it about 200 years before The Doom that that stuff started to come in.


Rosie Knight Okay. Whit asks a good, good, fun question. How common was incest and Old Valyria?


Jason Concepcion We don’t know. But Old Valyria was an oligarchy, meaning that like 30 or so dragon riding families basically ruled the city. So you can think about it as the Roman Republic, you know, with senators and consuls and stuff like that. No actual like figurehead, leader, leader and all these people kind of like jostling for position. My guess would be incest would happen of course, because again, that dragon riding blood, you want to keep it safe, but that there would also be significant intermarriage between those families to the point that I’m sure they were all cousins at, you know, by the point that The Doom happened, like they were all related somehow. So I guess you could say probably a lot of incest depending on how how you think of cousins in terms of incest.


Rosie Knight Okay. Mayne asks,  please connect the family tree dots from Viserys to Danaerys.


Jason Concepcion So this is the there are some really great family trees online and this is really interesting. So if we start with Viserys. His daughter is Rhaenyra. Then now spoilers, semi spoilers here. Okay, Rhaenyra is there. We got Aegon right as King right now concurrent with Rhaenyra. And there’s some controversy over who’s going to rule, but later on. Spoiler, spoiler, spoiler. Don’t listen to this if you don’t want to know. Aegon the third, a.k.a. Aegon the younger, goes and becomes king. You can start listening now. If if you didn’t listen, then you can start listening now. He then has a son named Baelor. And Daeron. Daeron then becomes king. He dies during the conquest of Dorne. He’s followed by Baelor and then Aegon the fourth, succeeds after Baelor. So those are all the grandsons of Queen Rhaenyra, the great grandchildren of Viserys. Aegon the fourth, then has a son named Daeron the second. Daeron the second then has a son named Maekar, who becomes king. Maekar, then has several very, very interesting sons, including Aemmond a.k.a Master Aemmond Tagaryen, and then the eventual king, Aegon a.k.a Aegon the fifth. Aegon the fifth then has a son named Jaehaerys. He was Jaehaerys the second, Jaehaerys the second, then has a son named Aerys who becomes Aerys the second a.k.a the Mad King. Aerys then has a bunch of children, including Daenerys Targaryen. So if we go from Viserys, that is like the eighth great grandchild. Denaerys is the great, great, great, great. Great, great, great, great granddaughter of King Viserys. So there you have it.


Rosie Knight Okay. Miriam asks. I’ve been thinking about the saying. Every time a Targaryen is born, the gods toss a coin. Does this come up in Fire and Blood at all?


Jason Concepcion It doesn’t. That was a quote attributed by Bariston Selmy to King Jaehaerys the second, the father of the Mad King, King Aerys. This is when Barriston is explaining to Daenaerys, you know how her father was actually kind of insane. And the coin flip metaphor is is pretty unfair. There’s no doubt that because of rampant incest and of course, the way immense wealth and power warps a person’s moral compass, that the Targaryens were really eccentric. But I think only a handful of them were people that you could truly say were mad. Okay. Usually they include King Baelor, King Baelor, the Blessed, who was just an extreme and fervent follower of the aith of the Seven. He burned books. He like fucking crawled to Dorne on his hands and knees. He was. He was. Now, I think other people would say maybe he was just very, very devout. But certainly that’s so again, there is one that, depending on how you read it, is either just a very, very extremely devout guy or actually insane. Prince Rhaegal, son of Daeron the second, was known to be mad. Aeryan a.k.a. Aeryan Bright Bright Flame, the son of Maekar, brother of a Maester Aemmond Targaryen, brother of Aegon the fifth, thought he was a dragon, made flesh and wanted to turn himself into a dragon and decided he would drink wildfire and that would turn him into a dragon. And of course he died. I think you can say canonically that guy was nuts. And then, of course, Aerys Targaryen, the Mad King. So that’s like four.


Rosie Knight Mm hmm.


Jason Concepcion Out of like multiple like, you know, out of dozens of Targaryens. And I wouldn’t throw Helaena in there, for instance. So I think that it’s a little bit of it’s an unfair saying, but not one that was really around during the events that we’re watching in House of the Dragon. This would come much, much later.


Rosie Knight Hanna asks, Good question. How did Daemon and Rhaenyra find out about Luke’s death so fast?


Jason Concepcion It’s a good question. I don’t know. Again, Storm’s End is quite close to Dragonstone like it’s it’s it’s right there. And I would assume since many, many, many people witnessed this, the the argument in Storm’s End between Aemmond and Luke and, you know, it would not take Aemmond that long to fly back to King’s Landing and give the news. And also assuming that Daemon, as he said, has numerous contacts in the city that there’s a bunch of ways that word could have come, either through Daemon’s contacts in the City Watch, his various spies, someone that is friendly to them in Storm’s End could have leaked the news. They were just like a lot of witnesses to that. It’s unclear, but it’s certainly not. It’s not unthinkable that they would have got that news that quickly. That news will spread very, very fast.


Rosie Knight Derek says. I was a little surprised that the Greens offered Aemmond as a match for the Baraetheon daughter. Was I wrong to perceive that the Baraetheons were not really heavy hitters in terms of influence in Westeros?


Jason Concepcion Oh no, they’re big time heavy hitters. They’re one of the great houses and meaning the most powerful, influential houses in the realm to which multiple lords, you know, swear their allegiance to these great houses. So that’s like the Baraetheons, the Starks, the Arryns, the Lannisters, etc.. Like they’re a big, big deal. And more than that. As we mentioned previously during our recap or Orys Baraetheon, who is the founder of House Baraetheon was placed at Storm’s End because of Aegon the Conqueror’s largesse. They were very, very, very close friends and companions and Storm’s End was formally and for centuries the seat of the Durand and Storm Kings. And that line ended during Aegon’s conquest. And Aegon, because he’s a it was a good chill, bro, was like, Orys, you’re my guy. It’s, by the way, rumored that this is like a bastard brother to Aegon, also so may have some Targaryen lineage and so you know the Baraetheons owe a lot to the Targaryens and it’s honestly crazy that Borros like repays them like this, but also they’re legitimately a big deal. Like, they’re a very, very big deal. And they are a powerful you know, they are the great house that is closest to King’s Landing. So you definitely want to secure their support if you’re at King’s Landing. They’re a big deal


Rosie Knight And finally, the last Ask the Maester question of this season comes from Michael, and he says, We know that Danny’s baby with Khal Drogo was scaled like a dragon. Is there some connection between Targaryens and dragons?


Jason Concepcion That’s a great question. So. Valyrian legend said that the Dragon Lords were, quote, This is from World of Ice and Fire. Quote, descended from dragons and kin to those they now controlled. So that’s what the Valyrian said about themselves were that. They were somehow like the evolution of dragons, the human evolution of dragons, and that they were all somewhat the same now. You mentioned Danny’s stillborn baby from Khal Drogo and how it was born. I don’t want to say deformed, but in this really unique, strange way that certainly makes you think about a dragon. Maegor or the cruel throughout his numerous attempts to have kids and produce an heir produced several produced children that were deformed in a very similar way. One was described as being eyeless with small wings. So. Maybe there’s something to the legend. Maybe there’s something to it. You know, that that is certainly we understand that the Targaryen blood and we would imagine the dragon lord blood of Old Valyria was important to why dragons listen to humans. So maybe there is some kind of shared lineage, magical shared lineage that has yet to be revealed. But certainly these very interesting births do suggest that. That’s it for the last Ask the Maester of this season. Thank you all for submitting questions. If you’re waiting on answers or you didn’t get your questions answered, I’m going to be emailing people back over the course of the next few days and weeks, so look for that. Up next, Hivemind. We will discuss lore from House of the Dragon when a book centric, spoiler filled conversation with our good friends from history of Westeros this week. X-ray Vision is absolutely delighted over the moon. To welcome back Aziz and Ashaya of History of Westeros Pod to discuss the lore of House of the Dragon with a particular focus on stuff that book readers would maybe be interested in. This is going to be a book centric conversation. If you don’t want to be spoiled on certain things, please feel free to pass this by. But this is going to be book stuff, book stuff, book stuff. Y’all, it’s great to see you. It’s so wonderful to have you here.


Ashaya Yeah. I’m so excited to be on. This is my first time. Aziz was on last time and we’ve been talking a lot of non spoilery topics on History of Westeros lately, so I’m pretty excited to just all out spoilers today.


Rosie Knight Yes, it’s time. We’ve all been waiting well.


Jason Concepcion Before we before we do that like your overall impressions both of you of of the show of what we watched what what did you think? House of  the Dragon, season one in the books.


Aziz I didn’t I couldn’t have dared expect it to be as good as it actually turned out to be. I couldn’t have gotten my hopes up that high. I would have. That’s just asking to be disappointed. I think so. And when it does deliver above expectations, hey, then you feel even better about it. And that’s that’s pretty much what happens. Set low expectations, they came in way, way, way, way above that. So I’m super happy they stuck to the lore pretty well. The changes they made were were overwhelmingly good.


Jason Concepcion Yeah.


Aziz And that gives me faith about what’s next.


Ashaya Yeah, I would say my expectations were pretty low, you know, just because they have to be like, as Aziz said. But it just blew me away how much like character depth that they managed to mine from what is sometimes thinly written characters in Fire and Blood. I love Fire and Blood, but still I feel like they found so much depth there. And I’ll say that I do a top 60 shows of each year, right? Like top 60 shows I’m watching this year, this one made the number seven. So Game of Thrones never even cracked my top ten. Lucky.


Rosie Knight YEah.


Jason Concepcion The Faith of the Seven.


Aziz Lucky.


Jason Concepcion So here’s a question for all of us. You mentioned the changes, the different things that they did. Obviously, Fire and Blood is written in a very, very specific way. Different, again, from the two novellas which also inform this show, you know, very dry written as far as fictional history. What did you make of the changes and how do you delineate between something like Laenor escaping to Essos, which is clearly meant to flesh out what we know and Fire and Blood and something like, you know, Milly’s erupting through the floor of the dragon is not in the books, but which you would have imagined if it did happen. Hundreds, if not thousands of people would have witnessed it would have talked about it accelerates. Be hard for anyone to miss that one. How do you so how do you how do you differentiate between a an edition and a true change in the things that we saw over the course of the season? Anybody.


Aziz That’s a good that’s a great question. For the most part, I try to whenever they overlap well enough, I, I merge them into one. Right. But as you said, there are some ones, some you just can’t do that with like the floor exploding. Yeah. That just you’re right. There’s almost no you can’t really conceivable that not being in the history if it really if it supposedly happened. So that’s that goes back to something George said and has said, I guess a couple of times. He said in an interview with us that there’s different canons, there’s just different versions. And that’s the case for so many other fandoms. I mean, how many there’s lots of canons for Star Wars. Marvel.


Jason Concepcion Oh yeah.


Aziz Right. Like how many Batman movies have there been? So there’s more. I mean, even though those are similar, they don’t drastically change from one to each, from one to another. Like this is ultimately isn’t a huge change, even though it’s like you said, it’s hard to imagine how it didn’t make the history that also just taking us to the same place. It’s not yeah, it’s not a big diversion. It’s not a branch off. It’s just a different bump along the road. So now I like how such things up about that particular thing. You know, we’ve got hatred from the peasants coming and hatred towards the dragons and that’s all, that’s all going to work out really well.


Jason Concepcion Yeah. Oh that’s going to work out tremendously. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Really well for which by the way, we don’t have to be coy about it. We know what’s going to happen is the people are going to be so furious at dragons that they are going to attempt successfully, in many cases, to massacre them in the in the very dragon pit where this event took place.


Rosie Knight So, like you said, it all leads to the same place.


Ashaya Yeah, I think that’s been really well set up there. Yeah.


Rosie Knight Yeah. And you know, Jason mentioned like the contextual additions, something that I just adored in the show that I was not expecting was like the way that they built out Alicent’s character arc and kind of changed her from this conniving person to this much more. There’s a much more like amount of empathy and storytelling that tells. What were some of your favorite kind of additions and added added context that you want kind of expecting to affect you as much as they did?


Ashaya I think you named a great one right there with Alicent for sure, because I think as a book reader going into it, I was primed to be anti Alicent going into the show.


Jason Concepcion Sure.


Ashaya But I tried I tried to have an open mind and.


Aziz She’s wearing an Alicent shirt.


Ashaya I’m wearing and Aeemond shirt.


Aziz Or you’r wearing an Aemmond shirt, my bad. I wore an Alicent shirt.


Ashaya I was I was primed to hate Alicent, but regularly Alicent did prove me wrong. And I think that was one that that really the show added a whole lot. And I’m speaking of Aemmond. I am wearing an Aemmond shirt right now. And I’ll say going into the show, I was not an Aemmond fan. I wasn’t I didn’t read Fire and Blood and go, Oh, yeah, this guy, this is crazy. Yeah, I see the show and you see like these levels to the character where like he was bullied as a kid and yeah, I don’t know, they there’s a lot of context, like you said, that they added these characters that even when we see like their actions in Fire and Blood and even if those actions remain the same, knowing everything that went on behind the scenes changes it so much.


Aziz Yeah, yeah. So it was a really wide open sandbox. They had to imagine these characters and you got to give them a lot of credit for choosing what they did, which worked out so well. Like you said, Ashaya said, the characters were so well-done. There are so many characters we did not expect to care about. I mean, Daemon reading Fire and Blood, you may not have love him or hate him. You knew he was going to drive the action. Be interesting, right?


Rosie Knight Yeah.


Aziz That that you could see that coming. Viserys, you couldn’t see him being so interesting necessarily.


Ashaya George couldn’t see that coming. George.


Aziz George didn’t see that coming, right? You pulled one up by the master there. They really got that one. That’s a real feather in their cap. And then, yeah, Alicent couldn’t see that coming as well, Aemmond, like who could predict that? You know, you just can’t see that coming. So that’s the kind of stuff that was legitimately surprises for us book readers. It was how well they did the characters. Yeah. We’re not surprised by Vhagar chomping Arrax. We’re not surprised. We’re going to be surprised when Jace goes down on his dragon in the Battle of the Gullet. You know, we weren’t surprised by the red wedding, you know, at ten years ago, whenever that was. So. But we were surprised by these things like this, these characters. And that’s that’s the core of the story. We want it to be about the characters. Vhagar killing Arrax isn’t like this incredible historical milestone it’s we care about like how both sides are going to react to it. I mean, it is an incredible historical milestone, but that’s not as important as what Alicent and Otto and Aegon are going to do and what Rhaenyra and Daemon and Luke and Jace, they’re going to do. Yeah.


Jason Concepcion One, you know, I think the depiction of Viserys and shouts to Paddy Considine for a just an imperial performance.


Aziz Imperial.


Jason Concepcion You know is the kind of magic of that character, is that I mean, you’re absolutely right. Like in the books, it’s just he’s a weak king period point. Like that said, it’s very cut and dried. He just was not a strong leader, did not really care to do it, wasn’t that interested and was pretty unplugged from things. Obviously, the show adds a lot of super interesting flesh and blood. He still kind of disconnected at times, but you understand emotionally where that comes from. And he was essentially maybe the rarest thing in this thing in Westeros, which is like a good, honest person. And I was talking to on the official pod, we were interviewing Ryan Condal, Greta Johnson and I, and Ryan said something interesting, which I never really thought of. I mean, you think about Fire and Blood is being written by these unreliable fictional historians. But he added this bit of context in which he said, you know, it was written by these unreliable fictional historians who were heavily biased toward the greens. These were green people, and I had never really thought about it that way. And I wonder thinking about that does that. Does that recontextualize anything from this show and from the books now that you kind of think, wow, like were these like actually Green zealots that were like, of course they would paint Viserys as this absolutely meek character and Rhaenyra as this like iron handed despot who couldn’t wait to, like, crack down on King’s Landing, etc.. Does that change anything? Because I was I was like very, very lightly mind blown by that when he said that. Mm hmm.


Ashaya Oh, I think in the fandom, there’s always been this kind of perception that that Fire and Blood is anti-Rhaenyra, is anti Black.


Jason Concepcion For sure.


Ashaya That that that there is that it is colored by that. And but I think more often people are focusing on the anti-Black part versus the pro Green part. Right. Speak to what you’re saying. Whereas like the fact that because they are pro Green, that does mean that Viseerys is colored differently. So, yeah, I would agree with that, with that take for sure. But I also think that they’re also anti they say some anti green things as well in it because I think in as much as they’re pro green or anti black, they’re also kind of just biased  Maesters against yeah, they’re kind of biased against women in general. And even thought Alicent is like the queen. They’re still biased against Alicent as a queen, I guess is my point.


Aziz Yeah, I would agree with that. It’s it is it has a different set of biases. It’s maybe more biased against the blacks than it is pro the greens, you know, because the the Green faction did cause a lot of trouble, even back at back in Hightower land where the Citadel is next door, which explains a lot of the influence right away. There is you know, there’s there’s I’m sure there’s some bad feeling around there because a lot of their own vassals turned against them. So it can’t just be straight up propaganda because it might have been in other circumstances. It might have been straight up like rewriting history entirely if they had had an overwhelming victory. You know, if they had taken the crown and won easily, they could if they would have directed the historical narrative even more. But I think they didn’t have that kind of leeway here. And that’s great writing because it fits with the level. Like if it had been propaganda, that would be like, well, how did they get away with this one? But you do see minor things like not counting Rhaenyra as having been queen. Like that’s a pretty good example, a pretty strong example right there that while they didn’t make everybody good guys, but that, you know, these important big things were were omitted permanently.


Rosie Knight Yeah. One of the things that I’m really interested in specifically from the finale and I’d love to kind of get your thoughts on it, you mentioned like Aemmond’s journey and the way that fleshes him out and this idea of him being like a bullying victim and then gone on to find his power. They do this really heartbreaking thing in the finale where they have this change, where it’s not this intentional killing to start a war. It is an accident of an egotistical kind of child trying to get his revenge. How do you feel like knowing what you know is book reading and stuff that’s going to shape his journey as as we move forward, that specific change? And did you like the change?


Ashaya What? I really like the change because I feel like it’s a change that gives nuance to Aemmond’s character without absolving him. Right. Like there’s not a lot of misunderstanding. Right. He still he still committed manslaughter. He’s still he still killed this kid. Like he’s still culpable for whatever. But you’re addressing your other part of your question for me, knowing that, like the history books have it down as Aemmond killed him and goaded into it and all that. So to me, that points to the idea that Aemmond is going to own this and is going to, as Aziz put it to me, that it’s better to be evil than incompetent. The general idea is that Aemmond is going to be like, Well, I didn’t mean to do this. I didn’t mean to be a kin slayer. But like, no one’s going to believe me anyways. I think he has to own it. So my big question is who Aemmond would tell the truth to? Like will he tell Alicent? Will he tell his mother or Otto or Aegon? Like.


Aziz Or Alice Rivers?


Ashaya Or Alice Rivers?


Jason Concepcion I think that e’sxactly what I was going to say is going to be Alice Rivers.


Ashaya Right. Like. Right. We’ll see him open up, too. That’s what I would like to see is Aemmond confess this to someone, I suppose.


Jason Concepcion Well, they kind of have planted the seed of, you know, Aemmond’s, you know, the kind of the physical side of him in terms of like relationships, sexual relationships. And, you know, earlier in this in the season, it can also be an episode when he goes to the brothel and they recognize they remember him. And there’s clearly something that’s setting off in his mind about that. I could really see him telling Alice what, what actually happened and.


Aziz Yeah.


Jason Concepcion On that, were you first of all, the entire situation reminded me a little bit of the kind of tragedy of Jaime Lannister and that like, here’s this thing that nobody nobody really understands the truth of it. And now he’s going to be painted with this name, which he does deserve, but not in the he’s not a kin slayer in the way everybody thinks. He I wouldn’t say absolve them purely like he he’s he incited that situation. He made it happen. He didn’t have to get on his fucking dragon and chase him. He did.


Rosie Knight But he did try and stop him. That’s the big thing that we know.


Jason Concepcion Which Yeah. Which brings me to this, which is how does I had not thought about dragons as, as being active decision makers in this story as they clearly are in that scene. Like it changes the way I look at it a little and even the way I look at you know, that confrontation on Dragonstone earlier in the finale when it was like, oh yeah. Like. Syrax kind of wanted to go like Syrax was like roaring back there and was kind of ready for it. And, you know, Arrax clearly, against Luke’s wishes, went and fired that little blast of flame at Vhagar and Aemmond. And then Aemmond, you know, tried to get Vhagar to stand down. Couldn’t get them to do it. Couldn’t get her to do it. Yeah. What do you think about this idea now where the dragons are these, you know, are active participants in a way that we did not expect in this story.


Ashaya You know, it makes me think of first is we are going to see the dragon seeds, right?


Jason Concepcion Right.


Ashaya And two, those dragon seeds are going to be riders of Vermithor and Silver Wing, who you would imagine as the dragons of Jaehaerys and Alissane, those two dragons have to be pretty close, pretty bonded, I would assume. And so that’s where my mind goes first is the idea of these the dragons who are close to one another and the idea of them ever having to fight near one another. I guess. What about you, Aziz?


Aziz Yeah, I think I definitely agree with that in there. When the concept was thrust more in our faces, stir in the show, we realized that there are some pretty solid examples from the books as well, like the most overwhelming being Aeraeya and Balaerion and.


Jason Concepcion Right.


Aziz The time of Septin Barth and Jaehaerys and Alissanne. Alicent but also Syrax when Joffrey tries to mount her in Fire and Blood and Daenaerys, just Drogon going where he wants. He she doesn’t have control. She gradually learns to control himself first. He’s doing what he wants, and that kind of implies that there may be another time where he goes does what he wants. Any dog owner, for the most part knows like a squirrel runs past and the dog just jerks you. Like they want to run after that squirrel. Like, it’s the same basic thing, except this is a gigantic monster. Like, by the way, it’s hilarious that the way a lot of people are personifying Vhagar, they’re like, okay, giant, uncontrollable, murderous lizard grandma. That’s what we’ll call her. She’s Grandma. Like, what it’s like actually. Okay, angry grandma. I guess I could kind of see that.


Rosie Knight I love that.


Aziz But I love the idea. I love the plot in general, the idea that they’re not in control. It was set up really well with Viserys saying, how do we control the Dragons is an illusion. All throughout the season they’ve had like little hints of Dragon and Rider having a bond, like with Daemon. Is it by the fire arrow when Rhaenyra is giving birth and other one? There’s other examples that are my thinking it. But you all know what I’m talking about. There’s plenty of little ones and then they get bigger and bigger. In this last episode there were like five of them, so they’re really just like hitting us with that, presumably because there’s a lot more of it coming in the future seasons.


Rosie Knight Yeah, like, okay, so this I kind of touched on this, this was that I would love to know if you think if you can think of any examples of this. So one of our listeners, Whitney who who I shouted out, had messaged me after seeing Daemon singing to Vermithor and the lyrics of the song being about this three headed dragon. And is there any examples of somebody bonding with two dragons and using blood magic to do it? Because I feel like that that was Whitney’s idea of what Daemon may have been doing after the death of Visenya.


Aziz Well, there’s no there’s no examples of one person bonded to two dragons, though there is a reference in Fire and Blood of a time when Laena took ship and Daemon brought both his dragon and Vhagar and like Vhagar somehow was commanded to follow him. So there was some way they got that to work. But that isn’t a bond. That’s just a command.


Rosie Knight Yeah.


Aziz So. But Ashaya had a really good idea of what the scene was setting up in terms of the dragon seeds and what’s coming.


Ashaya Yeah, I kind of feel like Daemon is trying to trying to get Vermithor and the other dragons more used to to people, to kind of get them ready to be ridden.


Aziz It’s been decades.


Ashaya Yeah. It’s been like, what is it like 20, 30 years since anyone wrote Vermithor. He might think, Hey, people will have a better shot at taming this dragon if I’ve been coming and singing to Vermithor or and again, maybe he’s thinking of his daughter Rhaena specifically or whatever, but he’s maybe trying to ease the path there. So like he is cultivating a human and dragon bond, but in the pursuit of someone else actually bonding the dragon, I guess is my take on it. Yeah.


Aziz Yeah. Primer. Yeah, that’s really cool.


Jason Concepcion And we’ve already, you know, we’re already we, it’s already been foreshadowed too for us to think about these Targaryen bastards, you know, when they go to the Children’s Fight Club in Flea Bottom, Aegon’s bastards down there and horrifying. So certainly, you know, we should presume that there’s any number of Targaryen bastards running around both King’s Landing and, you know, Driftmark and Dragonstone. I was thinking about like season two and what events from the books we might see in season two and when it, you know, Jace is heading off to the north eventually to go meet with Cregan Stark. That’s going to be fun. But, you know, George says he wants four seasons. Certainly the appearance of the Northmen doesn’t really occur until the the war is basically like winding down at that point. So. Do you think there’s any way with or where they speed that up? I guess we’re going to meet Cregan Stark, I would imagine, next season. That’s absolutely going to happen. But in terms of like the Starks and the North in general joining the fray, do you think we see that next season?


Aziz Well, we have the the advance army of Roddy the Ruin, which that they might tweak and make a Stark or something in charge of that maybe uncle rather than using Roddy, I think they’ll probably just still stick with Roddy the Ruin. But they might use a different leader, maybe someone who me to bring the Starks or some a more familiar house. And it’ll be wild to have it be like a car Stark or a Bolton or a Manderly rather than rather than a Dustin. Because the Dustin’s aren’t very well known. They are just as prominent like the does in terms of the history of the North. The Dustin are just as prominent as other names, but they’re definitely not as familiar to TV viewers. So they might make a small tweak there. But I know it’s going to be exciting to bring the North back into it. Fans are going to be so excited to see.


Jason Concepcion Oh my God, they’re going to start crazy.


Aziz People are going to love Cregan.


Jason Concepcion They’re going to love it.


Aziz And Sarah Snow is going to be really interesting, too. That’s when they have a lot more room to develop a story that it’s hard to imagine. For us, it’s like, well, there’s some certain elements we can pick out and kind of feel like they’re going to use that.


Ashaya But yeah, but they, I think they set up. Yeah. The Jason’s sojourn with the Starks really well with how much they’ve shown. Jace is aware of his bastardly, right? Yeah, he is aware. It weighs on him so I can’t. I just feel like there’s so much room for them to show Jace in Winterfell and he meets this bastard girl and he has bond with her and doesn’t judge her as much because he knows he is. Like, if I had been wondering whether I thought they would do Sarah Snow or not I those any reservations disappeared once they like really seemed to emphasize Jace caring about this.


Jason Concepcion I mean double date, Aemmond and Alice and Jace and Sarah.


Aziz Rivers and Snow.


Jason Concepcion Iron this out.


Aziz They both find a partner that matches part of their pathos like, yeah, Aemmond finds an older woman. Jace finds another bastard and then and they both get to bond over like their family members dying all around them.


Rosie Knight Trauma bonding.


Aziz Yes.


Rosie Knight How romantic. With kind of like the context of this season having happened, you’ve had those expectations kind of raised. Obviously always good to keep them low, even especially off something good like this. But is there a kind of quiet moment or a character that you wouldn’t necessarily have expected to see in season two, that you now feel like they might pick up or do justice to kind of build out in that way? And obviously, Jason, to you, too.


Ashaya Yeah. Okay. So for me, I still have to keep my hopes low because I’ve been through this before. I know. But I really, really love the characters of Essie and Silvenna Sand and the Mothers of Gaemon Palehair, and they’ve set up Gaemon Palehair with referring to how Aegon has multiple bastards. So I feel like they’re setting it up. I feel like with Mysaria talking about the power of the people, they’re also setting it up. But I won’t believe I get my, like, progressive lesbian mothers until I actually see them on screen. I guess, like, I won’t believe it till I see it. But those are the ones that I think there were a couple character beats in, in season one that made me like, well, maybe it’s going to happen, maybe we will get to yeah.


Aziz I, this is a great question. If I had more time to think about it, I might give another answer, but a good one popped into my head. So I’m going to roll that. It’s Mouse, which is the mother of Adam Velaryon and Alyn Velaryon. Adam, of course, ends up being the rider of Sea Smoke and Alyn Velaryon and of course, ends up being Oakenfist. So he’s pretty famous, although I don’t know that they’ll develop him a whole lot in this show because his role is pretty minor and but his brother not role is huge. So that’s having her involvement in this, being the mother of those children whose father they may have to lie about, because if they’re going to say it’s Laenor, but it’s probably actually Corlys and well, that presents its own sort of second level of fake heirs, kind of situation. Calls back a lot of the same stuff from Rhaenyra and Vaemmond and all this other stuff. And so she’s going to be caught in the middle of that. She’s got to, like, agree to this lie so her children can advance. It’s this very similar kind of scenario, I guess, but there’s a lot of ways they could play it. They could kind of not do it. They could just not even include her at all, potentially. So it’s a real wide range of possibilities there.


Jason Concepcion I’m thinking about season two again. I wonder if there are any events that you think for sure we will see this like I feel like Blood and Cheese. It’s going to happen, right? Like they’ve been foreshadowing it. I mean, I. I read the prominent shots of rats running throughout the castle as foreshadowing of the appearance of Blood and Cheese and the fact that these rats are out of control. They’re running through the passageways. Who’s controlling them is this rat catcher who, just guess what, knows how to move around these passageways. So I feel like we’re going to see that. Battle of the Gullet, you feel like we have to see. Are there any ones that that you feel like that has to be in season two? Just, you know, based on the kind of cadence that we have right now.


Ashaya I mean, you said the biggest ones, I think, for me. But I guess the other one is we’ve touched on is the dragon seeds, which isn’t like a big battle, but I think is a big sequence to me and one that I’m particularly excited for. I just have this great vision of like this bonkers montage of people coming out.


Jason Concepcion I know right. It’s going to be like, Yeah.


Aziz The memes are going to be out of control after the next day. The memes are going to go wild.


Ashaya Yeah, it’s like that’s what comes to mind for me. But yeah, Rook’s Rest, I suppose, is the other like big, big moment that I think of.


Aziz Yeah. Rooks Rest is, was kind of what I was thinking of too, because it’s got Vhagar and Aemmond and it’s got the death of of Rhaenys and Maeleys and then aegon’s horrible wounding and the maiming of Sunfyre. That’s there’s no way they can skip that. I agree it’s.


Jason Concepcion Right that has to be there.


Aziz Involved in the whole ground troops battling as well. It’s going to be really epic and it’s amazing to think about it. It’s a good thing Season one did so well because the the budgetary requirements for season two are substantially greater. I think that you mentioned the Battle of the Gullet. I think that has a chance to be the most expensive battle they’ve ever done because just thinking about all the pieces that all the dragons, all the ships, the stuff, every single aspect of that is expensive as hell.


Jason Concepcion This is why, you know, there’s going to be season two kind of has to be action packed is based on the books. Yeah. Which makes me wonder as a kind of a follow up. Do you think we open with either Daemon siezing Harrenhal or the Battle of the Gullet. Like, it feels like there is a chance that we open on a big battle right away.


Speaker 2 Well, we have to have the dragon seeds before the Battle of the Gullet. Right. So we probably can’t go straight to it, but it could be like episode three. I think he’s really pushing it. It could be episode two, but I think maybe more like I think Rooks Rest will be first.


Ashaya Yeah, I think Battle of the Gullet needs a little time.  I think I want them to take a little more time with Jace’s journey north. Yeah, I suppose, like, whereas like there’s a chance that we start straight with Jace in the North, but I would like to see him stop in the Vale and see Jane Arryn and.


Jason Concepcion That would be great.


Ashaya I would like to see the journey, but I don’t know how I think that’ll go off. I think they’ll kind of skip over that or just have him take his time. And I’m also curious where Jace is when he learns about Luke.


Rosie Knight Yeah.


Ashaya Because that’s the thing. Like, we don’t know, like, where is he going to be in the Vale? Is he going to be in Winterfell? Like who’s going to comfort Jace.


Aziz If he’s in Winterfell, you get Robb Stark, Jane Westerling vibes all over again.


Jason Concepcion Oh my gosh. Yeah.


Aziz That’s part of what they’ll bond over so that yeah. That’s really big. One battle that bears mention that I can’t say if it falls in the category of they’ll definitely do it, but they’re going to be really tempted to do it if they can afford to. Is the Battle of Burning Mill, just because it’s it sounds amazing to have a big, huge windmill on fire spinning fighting all around with Caraxes  and  Daemon involved like that. And that’s where you have like black Ali Black with putting an arrow through the dude’s eye and all this other stuff. So like, they might have to cut that, just talk about it. But they’re, they’re like we, we, they’re going to, I imagine they’re trying everything they can to fit that one in so well. I hope they do.


Rosie Knight Hmm. Yeah. I wonder if the the character driven nature of this first season was to allow for the many battles of season two. And, you know, I mean, this is like there’s unbelievable dragon action. Like, there’s great stuff, but it’s so character driven. And the first few episodes are really like a chamber drama of just like one family. So I do wonder if how they would balance what people have loved so much about this season with the mix of the kind of unbelievable action and speed that they’re going to have to go through for for season two.


Aziz That’s a good point that I was thinking about, which is what what slow scenes are we going to see in season 2? What council scenes? Are we going to see what really what will give us the time to breathe with the characters? And one thought that I had was I kept thinking I kept coming back to Rhaena Targaryen, Daemon’s daughter, and how she goes to the Vale and kind of just has this little court league season where she’s like being entertained by suitors. And I feel like that is crucial here is for them to not just have battle, battle, battle, but for us to see like here is what else is going on in the realm.


Rosie Knight Mm hmm.


Aziz Yeah, I agree with that. There’s some other potential. Like you said, Jace and Sara, we’ve mentioned that several times. There’s a great potential, although maybe that’s still really heavy. It’s not battle, but. But.


Ashaya But romance.


Rosie Knight Quiet. Yeah.


Aziz Yeah, yeah. You might have soft moments, like we said, with some of these with characters like Adam and Alyn Velaryon and maybe their mother Mouse, like I mentioned, maybe with Nettles as well, someone who actually because like Off and Hammer are going to be partying after the. Yeah, we’re dragon riders now, buddy. Let’s have some drinks. Whereas Nettles and Adam are like, war is horrible. So it is more relatable, I think for most of us. Like that’ll be soft and they’ll have to slow it down to see them react to that. Because if I remember correctly, Adam goes and talks to Corlys and is like, How do you process this? And he’s they have a confidence that’s got a lot of potential right there. And then like there’s a lot of deaths, you know, people dying is going to be a chance to slow it down and funerals. Yeah. And as  you mentioned court scenes like Otto’s going to get fired and yeah, Criston’s Criston’s going to get promoted and power to go to his head, just like it’s definitely going to go to Aegon’s head. Like we have yet to see what other drunken debauchery that this king is going to get into. They created a monster in there. They don’t realize it yet.


Ashaya I want to see an epic Aegon party scene mean.


Jason Concepcion That’s actually a great point because I think one of the themes that Rosie and I have been kind of hammering on is that Alicent doesn’t she thinks she’s going to be able to influence her son. Right. That’s what her plan is, basically, to try and steer him towards the light. She doesn’t realize how much she gave away when, you know, she just said, let’s crown him in front of everybody and let’s do it. I would expect that we’re going to really see a very, very sidelined Alicent next season, like crushed. I would imagine that, you know, it’s kind of between the lines in the book. But she’s I would imagine she’s going to be extremely frustrated by the lack of pull that she has going forward into season two.


Aziz I have a strong prediction here which agrees with what you’re saying, and it fits in very well, I think, with what Fire and Blood sets up. Okay. So we know Otto’s going to get fired. It’s going to be his Aegon is impatient with with writing letters, even though the letter writing is going to end up working out even after Otto is gone. So Aegon gets impatient, fires Otto and is a strike against his mother, promotes Criston Cole becomes Hand which takes him away from being her top protector, right hand man he goes to, you know, he’s like, Well, I can’t be your right hand man anymore. I’m the hand of the king. And then he’s out of King’s Landing. He’s not. He’s he’s out in the field. So she doesn’t have him by her side anymore, which we’ve seen how much that matters. Criston Cole’s presence in the in the council room after that King’s death was huge. Without him there, she could not have done what she did. She could not have gotten to Aegon first that not all that falls apart. She doesn’t even have that option. So it’s like when Cersei had The Mountain at her side, her her demeanor and what she could do and intimidate her ability to intimidate politically was massively changed there. I think that’s what Alicent will lose. So exactly what you’re saying there. Just her influence will go away and this is multiple mechanisms as to it can be stripped away. A) doesn’t listen listen to her. B) he takes away her supporters.


Rosie Knight Yeah. Who I hate Criston COle.


Jason Concepcion The as well I mean we’re going.


Aziz To be exciting.


Jason Concepcion We’re going to people are going to learn to hate him even fucking more next season. Any and then finally just like any predictions for season two, you know where do you think? Where do you think this season ends and any predictions that you might have?


Ashaya Ends. I’ve thought a lot about where I think it begins because I think it begins like starts off with some Blood and Cheese action. But I hadn’t put a lot of thought into where .


Jason Concepcion If there was Blood and Cheese. Episode one of season two that people are as that’s just going to be a lot I think it’s going to be.


Ashaya Like Yeah, it’s kind of what I think is like Rhaenyra to her face is so steeled at the end of season one. It just looks like the setup for okay Daemon, let’s go all out.


Aziz Like I was I was trying to hold back, but now.


Jason Concepcion Yeah, son for a son. Let’s go


Ashaya Yeah. What do you think a final? What do you think the final moment of season two would be like?


Aziz Maybe the fall. The fall of the first fall of King’s Landing, maybe. Yeah. A pretty good way to end it. It’s not it’s not too far forward. And it makes sense. I mean, we know Aemmond and Cole kind of pull all the defenders away and they’re like, hmm, opportunity. And yeah. So it could it leads to the eventually lead to the anarchy you can look like you know Rhaenyra ends the season on a on a win and which is kind of the opposite of how this season ends. Yeah, it’s kind of neat that way. I guess that works out. Yeah. But yeah, it’ll be something we think about a lot for the next couple of years here, but I think those are pretty strong options for sure.


Jason Concepcion Um.


Aziz One other thing I’m really looking forward to is since you asked that prediction wise, I think it’s a character that’s going to surprise book readers is Hammer. I think a lot of the fans, like more casual fans, will react very strongly to him, cause I don’t think we book readers have realized just how imposing he’s going to look on screen after he gets established and is riding that big ass dragon. We just saw that dragon. Well, he’s a huge man. He’s going to wear a crown, have a giant hammer, and probably be decked out in pretty boss armor after a time.


Ashaya His fans are going to be so.


Rosie Knight The fan art is going to be.


Aziz He’s awful. Yeah, yeah. Like talk about a villain that’s just a villain. Like, straight up, like a guy whose power goes with that right away. I probably mean.


Ashaya If they give him funny lines, he’ll have a fanbase. Yeah.


Rosie Knight Good armor.


Aziz So I think I think there’s actually a lot of potential for him to be very entertaining, you know, like a driver of action that I think book readers kind of he’s almost an afterthought, which is weird because he’s got a huge role, but people don’t like, like in our show, people don’t like ask us to talk about him or like he’s not like someone that gets brought up a lot, you know? So I don’t know.


Jason Concepcion I will just say that I think my prediction for either the penultimate or finale episode of season two is Otto’s Head coming off. The mirror of Ned Stark. Season one ending, I think. I think Otto getting got. Would love to see either episode ten of Season two of House of the Dragon any any final thoughts before we say goodbye? It’s been so wonderful to have you.


Aziz I would love to say how excited I am for the Blackwood’s for Black Alley Black women Blackwood Just like people. Like what characters? We have to love them. Like you got these characters. I guarantee you’ll love the Blackwood’s. I hope they give us the actual really good phrase because we got Sabathia vibrant Frey, who marries in, and then we’ve got Forrest Frey, who is not bad. He’s like, He’s pretty legit, actually. So I’m looking forward to the jokes about the cool phrase.


Aziz Perking up. The Tully’s are coming. Yeah, or how they’ll do that.


Jason Concepcion Aziz and Ashaya thank you so much for joining us. You can find them on the History of Westeros Pod on YouTube and wherever you get your podcasts. Anything else to plug, folks?


Ashaya Oh, I have one more thing to plug. I did a really cool mash up of Arrested Development with the Greens, like with Tim RUSSERT getting an intro credit rhyme mashup, the intro credits, it’s like 18 seconds long and I’m going to do one for the blacks as well. I might be doing more intro credit mashups because I realize I really don’t like the intro credits for House of the Dragon very much. So, like, why don’t I just recreate the intro credits for all the things I like? So I was like, I might do like The Royal Tenenbaums intro. Keep going with it so you can find on History of Westeros Arrested Development Meets House of the Dragon.


Jason Concepcion Oh, that’s so great, you guys.


Aziz Great job of that.


Jason Concepcion Thank you for joining us. And yeah.


Rosie Knight Thank you so much.


Jason Concepcion Please come back.


Aziz Yes, thanks for having us. We’ll come back anytime you want. It’s always great to talk to you, to.


Ashaya See you in a month. Let’s do the GOT Con. Let’s get in.


Jason Concepcion A big thanks to Aziz and Ashaya from History of Westeros. Rosie, what do you have to plug?


Rosie Knight You can find me on Instagram. Rosie Marx. You can find me at Letterboxd. Same handle. I’m updating all my films. It’s very fun to follow along. I have finally managed to watch one horror movie a day for October, which I somehow always, always managed to struggle with. So that’s been fun. Can find my writing at Nerdist, IGN, Polygon, Den of Geek all have some cool stuff. Coming up in the next than a geek magazine. And you can always just find me here talking about all this cool stuff.


Jason Concepcion Catch our next episode, November 4th. That’s going to be a big Star Wars episode, plus a lot of conversations about our favorite horror movies of 2022, plus an interview with Ron Sweetheart Run Director Shana Fest. Subscribe to the show on YouTube and of course follow @XRVPod on Twitter and check out our Discord and Discord Link in the show notes to meet with lots of other fans of X-ray Vision, fans of the projects that we talk about. And plus, Rosie and I were there all the time reading your theories, reading your conversations, and chiming in five star reviews. We love them. We got to have them. We need them. We love to get them. And when we get them, we read them out. Here’s one from Liman, DC Love, Jason and Rosie. Thank you.


Rosie Knight Thank you so much.


Jason Concepcion The feeling is absolutely mutual. Love this podcast. It’s so nice to listen to people who are fans talk about something they love. Well, we feel the same way and we love doing it.


Rosie Knight Yeah, we feel so lucky we get to do it. So thank you.


Jason Concepcion X-ray Vision is a Crooked Media production. The show is produced by Chris Lord and Saul Rubin. The show is executive produced by myself and Sandy Girard. Our editing and sound design is by the Vasilis Fotopoulos. Delon Villanueva and Matt DeGroot provide video production support. Alex Reliford handles social media. Thank you Brian Vasquez for our theme music. We will talk to you next week, folks. Goodbye.


Jason Concepcion Hey Mike. Yeah, it is. It is over. Arrax. Oh. Arrax, my favorite dragon. Anyway. He was a baby. You know baby dragon, why do we? Couldn’t Daemon send anybody else, Mike? Why did he send baby Arrax to do it? They have, like, a dozen adult dragons over them. Like, I had the fucking baby to go do an adult’s work. I’ll take my ansswer od the air, Mike