• Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said Monday that Israel was ‘on the eve of a forceful entry to Gaza.’ His announcement came just hours after his security cabinet approved a plan to seize and occupy the Gaza Strip indefinitely and move hundreds of thousands of Palestinians to Gaza’s southern region. It also came less than two weeks before President Donald Trump is scheduled to head to the Middle East for talks with Arab leaders. Ahmed Fouad Alkhatib, a resident senior fellow at the Atlantic Council where he heads the ‘Realign For Palestine’ project, talks about what Israel’s threats of escalation mean for the people living in Gaza.
• And in headlines: The White House said it wants to pay undocumented migrants $1,000 to voluntarily self-deport, Trump said he wants to make Hollywood great again by levying tariffs on films produced outside the U.S., and nearly two dozen states sued the administration over its cuts to the Department of Health and Human Services.

• Check out Ahmed’s work – www.atlanticcouncil.org/expert/ahmed-alkhatib/
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TRANSCRIPT

Josie Duffy Rice: It’s Tuesday, May 6th. I’m Josie Duffy Rice in for Jane Coaston, and this is What a Day, the show that is obsessed with all the looks from the Met Gala last night. The theme was super fine, tailoring Black style, Debbie Allen, Colman Domingo. You’re perfect. Never change. [music break] On today’s show, the White House wants to pay undocumented migrants $1,000 to voluntarily self-deport. And President Trump wants to extend his love of tariffs to Hollywood. But let’s start with Israel’s war in Gaza. On Monday, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu announced that Israel was, quote, “on the eve of a forceful entry to Gaza.” His announcement came just hours after his security cabinet approved a plan to seize the Gaza Strip and occupy the territory indefinitely. Netanyahu made the announcement in a video posted to social media. Here he is, interpreted by Sky News. 

[clip of interpreter of Benjamin Netanyahu] We decided to take intensified action in Gaza. That was the chief of staff’s recommendation to move, as he said, toward the defeat of Hamas. He believes this will also help us rescue the hostages, and I agree with him. We are not letting up on this effort, and we will not give up on anyone. 

Josie Duffy Rice: Not at all sure how occupying Gaza indefinitely is helping the hostages. The Israeli plan also calls for moving hundreds of thousands of Palestinians to Gaza’s southern region. The Israel Defense Forces, or IDF, is also calling up tens of thousands of reserve soldiers. This attempt to, quote, “conquer Gaza,” Netanyahu’s words, not mine, would be a massive escalation in a war that has already caused enormous destruction and death and displaced more than 90 percent of Gaza’s population. Currently, Israel has blocked all humanitarian aid from entering Gaza, and aid organizations have warned that the area is on the verge of widespread famine. So for more on Israel’s escalation in Gaza and what it means, I spoke with Ahmed Fouad Alkhatib. He’s a resident senior fellow at the Atlantic Council, where he heads the Realign for Palestine project. He’s also originally from Gaza. He joined us Tuesday from the airport in Los Angeles. Ahmed, welcome to What a Day. 

Ahmed Fouad Alkhatib: Thanks for having me. 

Josie Duffy Rice: So Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said Monday that Israel was, quote, “on the eve of a forceful entry to Gaza.” And his security cabinet also okayed a plan to take and hold the entire Gaza Strip for an unspecified amount of time. The army has also called up tens of thousands of reservist troops. What does this mean for the people living in Gaza? What has this changed about you know the war thus far? 

Ahmed Fouad Alkhatib: Well, I think there are two ways to read into this. The first is potentially a message, as a pressure tactic, if you will. We know that President Trump of the United States is going to visit the region on May 13th, and that will entail speaking with moderate Arab Sunni states, including Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates. And so perhaps this is an attempt to pressure the Arab states into avoiding a scenario of full reoccupation of the Gaza Strip, pressuring Hamas itself into understanding that Israel means business, and that this is the final opportunity to reach a ceasefire that entails the release of the hostages, the terror group stepping down from ruling the Gaza strip, and the beginning of some sort of an alternative governing structure. On the other hand this very much so could be a serious plan in which the Israeli government is truly intending to reoccupy the Gaza Strip with all the challenges that that presents. You have how many troops are you going to need to actually be able to hold entire chunks of the coastal enclave. We know that there are Israeli reservists who haven’t been really reporting for duty. There are folks who are frustrated by the government and Mr. Netanyahu. We know that there’s concern about the fate of the remaining hostages. At least the 24 who are believed to still be alive. So those are questions that are going to come up as we explore the two possibilities of, is this a negotiation tactic or is this a real operational plan with all the strategic, tactical and geopolitical implications that it entails? 

Josie Duffy Rice: How would an occupation be an escalation of what we’ve seen since October of 2023? You know I think from afar, it already sort of seems like we’ve been seeing an Israeli occupation of Gaza for months. 

Ahmed Fouad Alkhatib: Well, this if if the Israeli military and government were to proceed with this operation, this would be a massive escalation and a game changer really, currently as is and I’ve my brother runs a major medical international medical NGO in the Gaza Strip. I have other folks on the ground, right some of my surviving family and several contacts. Um. There are parts of Gaza that are not directly occupied by Israeli ground troops. There are parts of Gaza where the Palestinian people are able to move relatively freely. And so all of that would fundamentally change if you have a direct thrust by the Israeli military. So that would entail the relocation of large numbers, millions of people potentially. And even those in the south, they would be concentrated in an area that the IDF trying to establish as a humanitarian bubble, is what the the term they’re labeling. This would also potentially entail, as what we’ve heard from the IDF Chief of Staff, the complete destruction of everything above ground, all infrastructure above ground per his own words. So it would be a significant escalation. Now, the Israeli military currently does control roughly a quarter to a third of Gaza’s territory, But most of these are stationed around Gaza’s borders with Israel. 

Josie Duffy Rice: Right. 

Ahmed Fouad Alkhatib: With a couple of corridors that bisect–

Right. 

Ahmed Fouad Alkhatib: –the strip into three areas. 

Josie Duffy Rice: You mentioned this plan to move tens of thousands of Palestinians to the south as this in this humanitarian bubble. What infrastructure is even left in the south of Gaza to house and care for people in this quote unquote “humanitarian bubble”? Does that infrastructure still exist? And what would it be like for people who are in this southern area of Gaza? 

Ahmed Fouad Alkhatib: Well, this is precisely what’s most concerning about this this development, is that thus far, all that has been presented remains very nebulous, very theoretical frameworks for how this would work. It has not been well articulated as to specifics. We’ve seen the IDF raze entire neighborhoods of what was once the city of Rafah that has been entirely destroyed. And now, you have these areas that are entirely cleared. And I think we’re talking about potentially setting up everything from scratch in the form of tents, in the from of distribution centers. But still, you have nothing on the ground right now per available satellite imagery. And so that’s going to be a difficult challenge to tackle. How are you going to get this infrastructure ready in time? President Trump is supposed to be in the Middle East on May 13th. His visit is expected to last a few days and the Israeli government has announced that it will begin this expanded military operation after he leaves. So we’re talking about less than two weeks potentially to get this infrastructure in place, something that is highly unlikely. Meanwhile, we already have a horrendous situation where outright famine-like conditions have set in parts of Gaza. There’s an unequal distribution of what little food that remains there. Giving rise to criminal gangs, to looting by remnants of Hamas, we’ve seen the complete collapse of law and order. I don’t think the people of Gaza have two weeks left to really weather what has been the most horrendous chapter since October 7th, in terms of the humanitarian suffering. 

Josie Duffy Rice: I’d like to just talk about that a little bit more briefly, because I think this the fact that Israel has barred humanitarian aid into Gaza, um how are people surviving, what what is going on in Gaza right now, given that there’s no aid able to come in? 

Ahmed Fouad Alkhatib: So the complete blockade and siege has effectively amounted to a policy of collective punishment, unfortunately, whereby, yes, it is pressuring Hamas, but it’s also pressuring the people of Gaza who are stuck paying for a sin that they did not commit and a war that they are powerless to stop. So it’s an untenable situation. I met, personally, with senior Israeli current and former military officials and government officials, and I received repeated assurances that we understand it would be a war crime and an unethical decision to allow famine to set in, but we believe, and this was as of two weeks ago, what I was told is we believe that Gaza has one month before actual famine sets in, and I argued with some and said, I don’t believe those assessments are correct. But there’s a recognition that this is in fact a strategy to pressure Hamas, while also acknowledging that they’re going to squeeze to the very last minute before mass widespread hunger spreads. 

Josie Duffy Rice: Mm-hmm. 

Ahmed Fouad Alkhatib: And then they’re going to allow the spigot to be reopened. Something that I have called out as being really inconsistent with international humanitarian law that prohibits the use of starvation as a weapon of war. 

Josie Duffy Rice: Right. I wonder in this moment where things are with the ceasefire, can you tell us a little bit about where those talks are and why they stalled, if you can remind us why they stalled?

Ahmed Fouad Alkhatib: Well the very accepted explanation is that the Israeli government chose not to proceed to the second phase of the ceasefire. However, where things stand right now and where I think there’s a misalignment is that the Israel government wants to ensure that the terror group can no longer rearm, reestablish itself to pose a threat to Israel, reassert control over Gaza, remain in charge of governance. On the other hand. Hamas sees the remaining hostages and the ceasefire as the only mechanism through which it can ensure its own survival as a governance body in the Gaza Strip. Hamas has said that it would potentially let go of direct governance and allow a technocratic committee. Um. Those amount to nothing more than empty declarations that would create a Hezbollah-like model in Lebanon. Whereby Hezbollah reigned, but it didn’t govern directly. So it’s a really tragic situation in which once again, the innocent, uninvolved people of Gaza who are the majority of what remains, the women, the children are paying the ultimate price for a sin they didn’t commit. 

Josie Duffy Rice: You mentioned how Netanyahu has and his government have not really shown real interest in trying to stop this conflict, right? And Trump has mostly allowed Netanyahu to conduct the war as he wants. Is there any reason to think that this administration would try to prevent a full-scale you know capture and occupation of the strip by Israeli power? 

Ahmed Fouad Alkhatib: Initially I did believe and I still have reason to believe that the Trump administration is indeed interested in calming things down in the Middle East for the sake of pursuing the ultimate deal, which is Saudi-Israeli normalization, not just because Mr. Trump sees himself as wanting to be a peacemaker, but because such a deal is going to generate immense economic potential for American enterprise, American capitalism, and all sorts of international interests. So I hope that President Trump is going to pressure both moderate Arab countries into taking a stance against Hamas and saying, you have got to go. There is no future for Gaza and Palestine with you in charge. Similarly, that he would do something similar with Mr. Netanyahu and the Israeli government, which relies on U.S. support to say, enough, we cannot go on. We saw, we cannot go on with perpetual conflict and simply managing the conflict. The Palestinian people deserve a state and dignity and freedom, even as Israel has every right to exist in safety, security, and to be a safe home and a safe place for the Jewish people. The two things can exist concurrently. They do not have to be in perpetual opposition to one another. 

Josie Duffy Rice: Ahmed, thank you so much for joining us. 

Ahmed Fouad Alkhatib: Thank you for having me. 

Josie Duffy Rice: That was my conversation with Ahmed Fouad Alkhatib, a resident senior fellow at the Atlantic Council where he heads the Realign for Palestine project. We’ll get to more of the news in a moment, but if you like the show, make sure to subscribe, leave a five-star review on Apple Podcasts, watch us on YouTube, and share with your friends. More to come after some ads. [music break]

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Josie Duffy Rice: Here’s what else we’re following today. 

[sung] Headlines. 

[clip of President Donald Trump] What we thought we’d do is a self-deport, where we’re going to pay each one a certain amount of money, and we’re gonna get them a beautiful flight back to where they came from. 

Josie Duffy Rice: In the Oval Office on Monday, the president spoke to the press about his administration’s offer to give undocumented immigrants in the U.S. $1,000 in assisted travel costs if they voluntarily self-deport. The Department of Homeland Security announced the program in a statement on Monday directing migrants to use the Custom and Border Protection’s app, CBP Home, to submit their intent to depart to the government. The government says those who do so will be, quote, “deprioritized for detention and removal by immigration authorities.” And the $1,000 stipend will be paid out once they return to their home country. Even though the government would essentially be paying migrants to leave, DHS says the new program is expected to lower the cost of individual deportations. The department says it costs over $17,000 on average to arrest, detain, and remove someone without legal status. DHS said one migrant has already used the new program to secure a flight from Chicago to Honduras and that more plane tickets have been booked for this week and next. 

[clip of Letitia James] This is not how government is supposed to work. These actions are dangerous, cruel, and illegal. 

Josie Duffy Rice: A coalition of 19 states and the District of Columbia sued the Trump administration Monday over its gutting of the Department of Health and Human Services. New York Attorney General Letitia James is leading the lawsuit. 

[clip of Letitia James] Since taking office, this administration has fired scientists, closed labs, shuttered life-saving programs without rhyme, reason, or any legal authority. Nothing but devastating consequences for millions of Americans. This is not government reform. 

Josie Duffy Rice: HHS Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. announced a major restructuring of the department earlier this year to quote, “make America healthy again.” The department said it would cut around 20,000 jobs and shut down entire agencies as part of that initiative. The lawsuit alleges that the cuts have led to the shuttering of key disease testing labs and made it harder for states to access grants for crucial public programs. James and her fellow plaintiffs are asking a federal judge to reverse the department’s mass layoffs and block Kennedy’s restructuring of HHS. An HHS spokesperson responded to the lawsuit in a statement Monday, saying that the department quote, “remains confident that the process will withstand legal scrutiny and looks forward to a resolution that reflects the facts and the law.” 

[clip of President Donald Trump] I’m not just blaming other nations, but other nations a lot of them have stolen our moving industry and I’m saying [indistinct yelling in background] if they’re not willing to make a movie inside the United States, then we should have a tariff on movies that come in. 

Josie Duffy Rice: Hollywood is being destroyed. That’s a direct quote from President Donald Trump elaborating on the White House lawn about his plan to tariff movies produced outside the U.S. You’re probably wondering how we got here. On Sunday, Trump said in a Truth Social post the U.S. film industry is dying because of incentives that draw filmmakers abroad. He said he’s authorizing quote, “the Department of Commerce and the United States Trade representative to immediately begin the process of instituting a 100% tariff on any and all movies coming into our country that are produced in foreign lands.” You’re hearing it, you’re not seeing it, so you can’t see all the random capitalization that happened in his Truth Social post, but believe me, it’s there. If you’re wondering how this will work, the White House does not appear to have a plan yet. In an email statement on Monday, a spokesperson said they’re, quote, “exploring all options to deliver on President Trump’s directive to safeguard our country’s national and economic security while making Hollywood great again.” Trump told reporters in the Oval Office Monday he just wants to help the industry. 

[clip of President Donald Trump] So we’re going to meet with the industry. I want to make sure they’re happy with it, because we’re all about jobs. That’s all what I’m — you know, it’s very important. It’s a big industry, but it’s an industry now that’s — it’s really left — it’s abandoned the USA, where it started. And we’ll get it — we’ll get it back. 

Josie Duffy Rice: Maybe Trump will get it back with the help of his dream team, Sylvester Stallone, John Voight, and Mel Gibson. Trump appointed the actors earlier this year as special ambassadors to bring Hollywood, quote, “back, bigger, better, and stronger than ever before.” And the tense town halls continue. New York Republican Representative Mike Lawler faced a rowdy crowd at his town hall on Sunday night. Voters from Lawler’s swing district questioned him about Trump administration policies as chants and boos erupted and multiple people in the crowd were removed by law enforcement. Lawler’s town hall comes at a time of heightened tension between Republicans and the constituents they have to answer to about things like DOGE, tariffs, and Ukraine. Despite a registration requirement and a long list of guidelines, at one point during the event, when Lawler was discussing tariffs, law enforcement surrounded a woman in the crowd. In a video shared by ABC News, you can hear people chanting, let her stay. 

[clip of unnamed person] [crowd chanting ‘Let her say]. You’re gonna have to kick out everybody. 

Josie Duffy Rice: The officers eventually picked the woman up and carried her out of the auditorium. She held up peace signs as they removed her. But that was just another raucous night for Lawler. Last month, he held a town hall where he was also heckled by constituents. And that’s the news. [music break]

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Josie Duffy Rice: That is all for today. If you like the show, make sure you subscribe, leave a review, heckle your nearest Republican member of Congress out of town hall, and tell your friends to listen. And if you’re into reading, and not just the paltry list of Republicans actually brave enough to even hold a town hall like me, What a Day is also a nightly newsletter. So check it out and subscribe at crooked.com/subscribe. I’m Josie Duffy Rice, and it’s fun to boo people. 

Jane Coaston: What a Day is a production of Crooked Media. It’s recorded and mixed by Desmond Taylor. Our associate producers are Raven Yamamoto and Emily Fohr. Our producer is Michell Eloy. We had production help today from Johanna Case, Joseph Dutra, Greg Walters, and Julia Claire. Our senior producer is Erica Morrison, and our executive producer is Adriene Hill. Our theme music is by Colin Gilliard and Kashaka. Our production staff is proudly unionized with the Writers Guild of America East. [music break]